At 05:46 PM 10/15/2011, Jim Palfreyman wrote...

What an annoying website.

Here's a better source, without all the unnecessary pagination and
pablum. http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.2685

On 10/16/2011 01:50 AM, Mike S wrote:

Thanks. While the annoying website was scetchy in the science pub way,
and also failed to explain why neutrinos would experiencing this but not
photons, the paper is scetchy in that it makes quite rough assumptions
on the GPS system as a time transfer mechanism AND fails to address the
much tighter time difference of 2.4 ns that the time-transfer experiment
achieved.

It is a good comment that you need to consider the reference frame of
GPS birds etc. It fails to analyze what is already being done and
researched in that field.

So no, I do not think this paper debunk the OPERA paper, at least not by
itself.

I'm to tired to make a detailed break-down right now, therefore my
schetchy comments. I can dig up papers and provide detailed accounts if
needed.

Cheers,
Magnus

Mike S wrote:

and the original one in a more readable form:

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/speedy-neutrino.php

--
Bob Smither, PhD                                  Circuit Concepts, Inc.

---=======
An armed society is a polite society.
-- Robert Heinlein

---=======
Smither@C-C-I.Com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)

I don't know what the experimental setup is.  However if I were to be
using GPS, I would use the GPS system to get a precise time at each end,
record the time of the event that should generate the neutrino burst at
one end precisely to a clock set by GPS and record the arrival time at
the other end.

The observation from the GPS frame is irrelevant if that way the
experiment is performed.

I would think the mathematics of GPS timing and calculations would
already have the relativistic effects factored into constants.  I
vaguely recall such things in there, but the whole GPS system is
something hard to retain and recall at this point to find references
about that.

I read some amount about the calculations in reading a patent some years
ago which was to try to use a couple of PC's to do the calculations
among other things, and had an analysis of the time required to do the
calculations.  I need to find it because there were estimates of how
long each part of the system calculations took to justify that the
scheme would work.

I assumed that if one were solving a multi term equation of readings to
arrive at a spatial value from the timing information that the motion of
the satellites would have to have had the relativistic effects factored
in.  So it would not be present in my above description of the experiment.

Jim

On 10/15/2011 8:13 PM, Bob Smither wrote: