Thanks to all who responded to my question about the proper gauge wire to
connect my 300w inverter. I think I'll go with the 10 gauge wire to help
insure against voltage drop in a hot engine room environment, and just in case
the run is longer than I estimate.
Maybe this is how it starts... a small inverter so we can watch TV quietly.
Then we start adding more batteries, then a bigger inverter, a bigger
alternator, and so on. ;-)
Mel Knott
Sandpiper
West Indian 36
Annapolis, MD
Yup, that's how it starts all right. My Norcold DE728 died. I called a
distributor and they wanted $1,895 for a new one. I bought a Freedom 10 for
$500, (4) golf cart batteries for $200, and a Sears refrigerator for $261.
Bottom line is 110 is a commodity. Now everything from blenders to hair
dryers is 110 and I don't even need to fire up the ONAN on an average
weekend. Mudslides are a lot better when made properly in a good blender!
Regards...
Phil Rosch
Dolly Surprise, MT 44 DC
Wakefield, RI
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com
[mailto:owner-trawler-world-list@samurai.com] On Behalf Of mknott
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 3:16 PM
To: Trawler World List
Subject: TWL: Wire gauge
Thanks to all who responded to my question about the proper gauge wire to
connect my 300w inverter. I think I'll go with the 10 gauge wire to help
insure against voltage drop in a hot engine room environment, and just in
case
the run is longer than I estimate.
Maybe this is how it starts... a small inverter so we can watch TV quietly.
Then we start adding more batteries, then a bigger inverter, a bigger
alternator, and so on. ;-)
Mel Knott
Sandpiper
West Indian 36
Annapolis, MD
Just as an aside, a refrigerator is the one thing that buying a dc
version doesn't gain you much. The compressors are all (as far as I
know) ac motors. So the dc refrigerators have a built in inverter to run
off dc. You will have about the same efficiency buying an ac unit and
running it off your ship's inverter.
Russ
"Philip J. Rosch" wrote:
Yup, that's how it starts all right. My Norcold DE728 died.
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Russ and Donna Sherwin |
| "Four Seasons" |
| 1981 Marine Trader DC44 |
| Sunnyvale, Ca 94087 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
At 06:25 PM 02/24/2000 -0800,Russ Sherwin wrote:
Just as an aside, a refrigerator is the one thing that buying a dc
version doesn't gain you much. The compressors are all (as far as I
know) ac motors. So the dc refrigerators have a built in inverter to run
off dc. You will have about the same efficiency buying an ac unit and
running it off your ship's inverter.
Russ
Arild replies:
A slight correction regarding DC fridges. They do have some advantages.
First of all, there is a backup built in because the way a two way unit
is set up gives preference to 120V AC and does an automatic transfer to
12 V DC if the AC fails. Many inverters do not have automatic transfer
swithces built in.
A vessel left unattended and connected to dockside power will not have
the contents of the fridge spoil if the cord is dislodged by someone else
using the outlet in the owners absence. Nor will a prolonged utility
power outage cause problems unless the battery also runs down.
It is my understanding that Norcold fridges have 24 Volt DC compressor
motors. The " inverter" is actually a DC - DC converter changing the 12 V
to 24 V. The reason for this is that wire gauge can be reduced greatly
when running 24V compared to 12 Volts.
When running on 120V AC the voltage is reduced with a transformer and
rectified to suit the 24V DC motor.
Speaking of inverters, I would like to point out that inverter brands
vary. Some of the early models put out a square wave. Then came modified
square wave and finally true sine wave which is closest to what you get
from the power utility grid.
The efficiency of the inverters will also vary from brand to brand. In
addition the efficiency varies with load. So depending on the size of your
inverter and what % of full rated output your fridge represents, you may
not be at optimum efficiency.
I have discovered that motors in fridges and air conditioners run cooler
on sine wave inverters as compared to modified sine/square or square
wave inverter outputs. I have asked one manufacturer to conduct some
tests to document and quantify exactly what and how much difference
there is.
Recently, I spoke to someone who had to replace their AC fridge which was
running off an old square wave inverter. The fridge failed much sooner than
expected and it is my opinion that internal heating of the compressor
motor due to the inverter waveform was a major contributing factor.
The conversion efficiency of the inverter must also be considered. Not
all inverters are equal. For that matter not all gensets are putting out
pure sine waves. This was a surprise to me. While attending boat shows I
discovered that many smaller gensets have a high harmonic distortion
content. There is a new technology available which uses variable speed
control and a complex alternator/inverter setup to produce 60Hz 120V power.
The variable speed genset runs at a power level to match the demand.
The output from the alternator is then fed into an electronic control box
which operates much like a switching mode inverter to create 120/240
AC regulated at a fixed 50 /60 hertz. As load increases the throttle
is advanced to produce more elecrtical power from the alternator and thus
more inverter output. The problem is, some of these elecrtonic control
boxes do not put out pure sine wave. One manufacturer was specifying a
22.5 % harmonic distortion content for their smallest model.
Guess what that level of distortion does to the efficiency of your
fridge or air conditioner motors. How much hotter does it make the motor
run? How much does it shorten the motor life?
No one seems to have an answer.
At least with a purpose built DC fridge you have the manufactures
guarantee that the unit will perform to design spec for the planned
lifespan of the appliance.
Just my two cents worth.
Cheers
Arild