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Fwd: [PUP] RE: Celestial Navigation?

P
PRINTMORE1@aol.com
Sun, Dec 19, 2004 9:53 PM
MM
Mike Maurice
Sun, Dec 19, 2004 10:52 PM

At 04:53 PM 12/19/04 -0500, you wrote:

exact details on how to proceed in this situation unless requested. I am
not anti-electronic but you should have a way to get into port if the
electronics fail. All this takes practice and more practice but the result
is a high level of confidence and a good feeling in being able to navigate
safely. Regards. Leonard Stern, Indifference

My major complaint with sextants is that of cost. For $1000 you can buy 10
GPSs with lithium AA batteries with which you can get a fix of almost
infinite precision. The batteries will still get a fix 10 years from now.
In the meantime, if you don't practice with your sextant you will be lucky
to be able to get any fix worth having.
A good sextant is perhaps more than $1000, but you can use one of the
plastic ones, which will get reasonable fixes for perhaps $200. On the
other hand, you can still get 2 GPSs and batteries for that amount. In any
event, you get my thinking. I know that this is a kind of heresy and that
Sextant religion is not to be trifled with, but I have a pretty hard headed
attitude about costs and benefits.

Yea, I know. About midnight the Sextant followers will gather around my
bunk, chanting. And, by daylight another heretic will have been burned at
the stake.

Mike

Capt. Mike Maurice
Tualatin(Portland), Oregon

At 04:53 PM 12/19/04 -0500, you wrote: >exact details on how to proceed in this situation unless requested. I am >not anti-electronic but you should have a way to get into port if the >electronics fail. All this takes practice and more practice but the result >is a high level of confidence and a good feeling in being able to navigate >safely. Regards. Leonard Stern, Indifference My major complaint with sextants is that of cost. For $1000 you can buy 10 GPSs with lithium AA batteries with which you can get a fix of almost infinite precision. The batteries will still get a fix 10 years from now. In the meantime, if you don't practice with your sextant you will be lucky to be able to get any fix worth having. A good sextant is perhaps more than $1000, but you can use one of the plastic ones, which will get reasonable fixes for perhaps $200. On the other hand, you can still get 2 GPSs and batteries for that amount. In any event, you get my thinking. I know that this is a kind of heresy and that Sextant religion is not to be trifled with, but I have a pretty hard headed attitude about costs and benefits. Yea, I know. About midnight the Sextant followers will gather around my bunk, chanting. And, by daylight another heretic will have been burned at the stake. Mike Capt. Mike Maurice Tualatin(Portland), Oregon
PJ
Philip J. Rosch
Mon, Dec 20, 2004 1:46 AM

Hal Roth, at an SSCA GAM a few years ago was asked by a true minimalist
sailor with a long beard whether he had a back-up sextant.  Hal said he
"float tested" it years ago (he's 88) in favor of multiple GPS units.

I gave mine away 3 years ago after I bought my 5th GPS.  IMHO, its one of
the skills you have to use or you'll lose.

                                      Regards....

Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Man-O-War Cay, Bahamas

Hal Roth, at an SSCA GAM a few years ago was asked by a true minimalist sailor with a long beard whether he had a back-up sextant. Hal said he "float tested" it years ago (he's 88) in favor of multiple GPS units. I gave mine away 3 years ago after I bought my 5th GPS. IMHO, its one of the skills you have to use or you'll lose. Regards.... Phil Rosch Old Harbor Consulting M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC Currently moored in Man-O-War Cay, Bahamas
K
Keith
Mon, Dec 20, 2004 12:45 PM

I have a Davis Mark 25, about $200 new, cheaper on E-bay. I figured that the
additional precision of a really "good" sextant would be lost on me with a
small powerboat pitching around on the seas. The expensive one might be good
on a carrier deck or something more stable. Also, the additional precision
would probably be wasted on inexperienced me... operator error!

One other note. Like any backup equipment, take out those backup GPS' and
use them occasionally. For one, new Duracells expire in what... six years?
Don't let them sit around that long or eventually they will corrode and ruin
your equipment. Don't ask me how I know this. This past weekend, I pulled
out my Garmin 175 GPS / chartplotter to use it. Somehow, the "new" duracells
were dead. This usually means the power button got pushed along the way
while in it's case, but I don't know how this happened since it sits in a
metal box (faraday cage) untouched. Anyway, once plugging in to 12V power,
seems it had lost it's initial position fix, so it had no idea in the world
(literally) where it was. Had to reinitialize, and it took a LONG time to
acquire signals.

Once it finally had a good fix, I discovered that for some reason, the
chartplotter function wasn't working properly... it now doesn't want to
recognize the chip. Good thing I really didn't need the thing in an
emergency!

Keith
__
...at least I thought I was dancing, 'til somebody stepped on my hand.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Maurice" mikem@yachtsdelivered.com

My major complaint with sextants is that of cost. For $1000 you can buy 10
GPSs with lithium AA batteries with which you can get a fix of almost
infinite precision. The batteries will still get a fix 10 years from now.
In the meantime, if you don't practice with your sextant you will be lucky
to be able to get any fix worth having.
A good sextant is perhaps more than $1000, but you can use one of the
plastic ones, which will get reasonable fixes for perhaps $200. On the
other hand, you can still get 2 GPSs and batteries for that amount. In any
event, you get my thinking.

I have a Davis Mark 25, about $200 new, cheaper on E-bay. I figured that the additional precision of a really "good" sextant would be lost on me with a small powerboat pitching around on the seas. The expensive one might be good on a carrier deck or something more stable. Also, the additional precision would probably be wasted on inexperienced me... operator error! One other note. Like any backup equipment, take out those backup GPS' and use them occasionally. For one, new Duracells expire in what... six years? Don't let them sit around that long or eventually they will corrode and ruin your equipment. Don't ask me how I know this. This past weekend, I pulled out my Garmin 175 GPS / chartplotter to use it. Somehow, the "new" duracells were dead. This usually means the power button got pushed along the way while in it's case, but I don't know how this happened since it sits in a metal box (faraday cage) untouched. Anyway, once plugging in to 12V power, seems it had lost it's initial position fix, so it had no idea in the world (literally) where it was. Had to reinitialize, and it took a LONG time to acquire signals. Once it finally had a good fix, I discovered that for some reason, the chartplotter function wasn't working properly... it now doesn't want to recognize the chip. Good thing I really didn't need the thing in an emergency! Keith __ ...at least I thought I was dancing, 'til somebody stepped on my hand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Maurice" <mikem@yachtsdelivered.com> > > My major complaint with sextants is that of cost. For $1000 you can buy 10 > GPSs with lithium AA batteries with which you can get a fix of almost > infinite precision. The batteries will still get a fix 10 years from now. > In the meantime, if you don't practice with your sextant you will be lucky > to be able to get any fix worth having. > A good sextant is perhaps more than $1000, but you can use one of the > plastic ones, which will get reasonable fixes for perhaps $200. On the > other hand, you can still get 2 GPSs and batteries for that amount. In any > event, you get my thinking.
MM
Mike Maurice
Mon, Dec 20, 2004 9:52 PM

At 06:45 AM 12/20/04 -0600, you wrote:

One other note. Like any backup equipment, take out those backup GPS' and
use them occasionally. For one, new Duracells expire in what... six years?
Don't let them sit around that long or eventually they will corrode and
ruin your equipment. Don't ask me how I know this. This past weekend, I
pulled out my Garmin 175 GPS / chartplotter to use it. Somehow, the "new"
duracells were dead. This usually means the power button got pushed along
the way while in

Alkaline Duracells should not be left in any expensive equipment for even a
year without checking them. Even the expensive Lithium L-91's should be
checked once a year, to make sure they are not leaking or have had some
other kind of failure. The L-91's actually have some electronics in the
body and that part is possibly subject to failure, where the actual Lithium
part would still be ok.

GPS's should be turned on and run for 15 minutes (min) every six months or
so. Check the batteries. An hour or more would be better. The almanacs get
out of date and this info is what the GPS uses to decide which satellites
to try to latch onto. In any event, if you have any inkling that you may
need a GPS in a hurry, especially in rough conditions, it should be turned
on 15 minutes ahead of time. 30 minutes would be better. About once a year
I take all my GPS's  out and let them run for a couple of hours in a
location with as wide open a sky as available, and check all batteries.
Replacing any that seem down more than about 30 percent. If conditions are
really rough it is possible you will not be able to get a fix with a unit
that has not been on for a year or more; at all, until conditions calm
down. Keep this in mind. All this will be aggravated by having the antenna
located high up and subject to extreme motion, like on a mast.

I have never had any trouble getting a quick fix, if these guidelines have
been followed. But, I have had trouble when I did not use them. I am
suspicious that most troubles with getting a fix are related to some of the
problems mentioned above. There are so many misconceptions about that GPS.
There is no magic. These are just radio receivers with computers, and are
subject to the same problems as pretty much any other similar equipment.

Mike

Capt. Mike Maurice
Tualatin(Portland), Oregon

At 06:45 AM 12/20/04 -0600, you wrote: >One other note. Like any backup equipment, take out those backup GPS' and >use them occasionally. For one, new Duracells expire in what... six years? >Don't let them sit around that long or eventually they will corrode and >ruin your equipment. Don't ask me how I know this. This past weekend, I >pulled out my Garmin 175 GPS / chartplotter to use it. Somehow, the "new" >duracells were dead. This usually means the power button got pushed along >the way while in Alkaline Duracells should not be left in any expensive equipment for even a year without checking them. Even the expensive Lithium L-91's should be checked once a year, to make sure they are not leaking or have had some other kind of failure. The L-91's actually have some electronics in the body and that part is possibly subject to failure, where the actual Lithium part would still be ok. GPS's should be turned on and run for 15 minutes (min) every six months or so. Check the batteries. An hour or more would be better. The almanacs get out of date and this info is what the GPS uses to decide which satellites to try to latch onto. In any event, if you have any inkling that you may need a GPS in a hurry, especially in rough conditions, it should be turned on 15 minutes ahead of time. 30 minutes would be better. About once a year I take all my GPS's out and let them run for a couple of hours in a location with as wide open a sky as available, and check all batteries. Replacing any that seem down more than about 30 percent. If conditions are really rough it is possible you will not be able to get a fix with a unit that has not been on for a year or more; at all, until conditions calm down. Keep this in mind. All this will be aggravated by having the antenna located high up and subject to extreme motion, like on a mast. I have never had any trouble getting a quick fix, if these guidelines have been followed. But, I have had trouble when I did not use them. I am suspicious that most troubles with getting a fix are related to some of the problems mentioned above. There are so many misconceptions about that GPS. There is no magic. These are just radio receivers with computers, and are subject to the same problems as pretty much any other similar equipment. Mike Capt. Mike Maurice Tualatin(Portland), Oregon
RR
Ron Rogers
Tue, Dec 21, 2004 1:39 AM

Mike, et. al.,

What implications does this have for 406 EPIRBS with built-in GPS receivers?
Does anyone know if when you place your EPIRB in test mode, does it attempt
to acquire any satellites? I fear not.

Ron Rogers
Willard 40 AIRBORNE
Lying Annapolis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Maurice" mikem@yachtsdelivered.com

| If conditions are
| really rough it is possible you will not be able to get a fix with a unit
| that has not been on for a year or more; at all, until conditions calm
| down. Keep this in mind. All this will be aggravated by having the antenna
| located high up and subject to extreme motion, like on a mast.
|
| I have never had any trouble getting a quick fix, if these guidelines have
| been followed. But, I have had trouble when I did not use them. I am
| suspicious that most troubles with getting a fix are related to some of
the
| problems mentioned above. There are so many misconceptions about that GPS.
| There is no magic. These are just radio receivers with computers, and are
| subject to the same problems as pretty much any other similar equipment.

Mike, et. al., What implications does this have for 406 EPIRBS with built-in GPS receivers? Does anyone know if when you place your EPIRB in test mode, does it attempt to acquire any satellites? I fear not. Ron Rogers Willard 40 AIRBORNE Lying Annapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Maurice" <mikem@yachtsdelivered.com> | If conditions are | really rough it is possible you will not be able to get a fix with a unit | that has not been on for a year or more; at all, until conditions calm | down. Keep this in mind. All this will be aggravated by having the antenna | located high up and subject to extreme motion, like on a mast. | | I have never had any trouble getting a quick fix, if these guidelines have | been followed. But, I have had trouble when I did not use them. I am | suspicious that most troubles with getting a fix are related to some of the | problems mentioned above. There are so many misconceptions about that GPS. | There is no magic. These are just radio receivers with computers, and are | subject to the same problems as pretty much any other similar equipment.