resurrected boats from previous huricanes,
Myself and a number of my cohorts are watching all of these boats salvaged.
The boat I purchased and restored was completely restored in a month and cost
slightly more than I anticipated, since I had to purchase some new
components--not able to find in salvage yards. However, please remember I have
built several fiberglass boat and restored several others, so I knew what to
do and what it would take. My friends, who are semi professional boat
builders--and professionals have also completed a number of boats. However
very few of the amateur or inexperienced boat restorers have been
successful--and there are lots of derelect hulls littering yards--some
abandoned, some for sale for less than paid at salvage. The average yard time
for the professional restorations has taken at least twice as long as
estimated--and in most cases was much more expensive because of hidden damage.
I looked at a number of salvaged boats--some with owners and potential
purchasers. Often there was hidden damage not picked up by the surveyors.
There were also some hidden surprises--where parts were readily available.
Also there have not been as many salvaged parts on the consignment or used
market as one might expect--so often new components have to be found--or
fabricated.
For an example of a professional rebuild--the Hartman Palmer 56 which I was
willing to bid up to $150,000 on (and that was the same limit as a
professional friend of mine--I found out later)--was purchased for $225,000.
So far another $200,000 has been spent in a professional yard--for a boat
which is market value about $350,000. Do the math!
There is a good reason that a totally submerged boat is written off! I doubt
if this boat flooded from rain water--there would have been salt water
intrusion, even if it didn't sink fully. Also very few boats sink due to dock
lines not giving-- we saw the pilings were pulled up by the boats, even in
well established, pile driven marinas. (if the lines didn't break).
Arlid knows what the total rewire will cost. I would completely write off the
genset engine--it would have had salt water, and even after a week there would
be bearing damage. At this time you will find that it is unrepairable--unless
it was immediately washed with fresh water, then pickled.properly.
Even those which were immediately pickled may have not been properly done.
For example on the HP mentioned above. I looked at the engine oil-My guess is
that it had only been rinsed, then diesel put in, maybe one change of lube
oil. The oil should have been changed several times, the engine hand turned
over during the first two changes, then run after each change to bring it to
temp--if the boat was in the salvage yard, it could not have been done. The
HP also still had water in the transmissions--that means that the bearings on
them will fail prematurely. From what I saw many of these boats just were
rinsed, diesel and oil put in and then new oil--the engnies were not run
adequately to dry out the moisture.
Unless you really know how much the boat was damaged--and you have experience
(which Arlid has) don't consider a salvage boat.
The 38 footer must have been a real bargin to have it trucked all the way to
Vancouver! Good luck to the owner.
Regards,
Bob Austin
----- Original Message -----
Bob Austin wrote:
Myself and a number of my cohorts are watching all of these boats salvaged.
The boat I purchased and restored was completely restored in a month and
cost slightly more than I anticipated, since I had to purchase some new
components
snip<<<
There is a good reason that a totally submerged boat is written off
snip<<<
Arlid knows what the total rewire will cost. I would completely write off
the genset engine--it would have had salt water, and even after a week there
would be bearing damage. At this time you will find that it is
unrepairable--unless it was immediately washed with fresh water, then
pickled.properly.
snip<<<
The 38 footer must have been a real bargin to have it trucked all the way to
Vancouver! Good luck to the owner
REPLY
Thanks Bob for the run down. You pretty much confirmed what I suspected.
In the case of the 38 sportsfish the owner is already thinking in terms of
total replacement of everything.
He is not thinking of salvaging anything.
He owns a marina and is therfore somewhat familiar with the damage you get
from salt water immersion when the boat sinks..
He.chose this boat primarily because we do not se many sports fish hulls up
here in PNW and he specifically wanted a huge cockpit that can accomodate a
large group of people. All the fishing tackle stuff goes, as does much of
the interior.
I would not be surprised to learn that he got the hull basically for
nothing simply to remove it from the yard.
In which case the trucking cost amounts to the same as popping a new hul
from a mold.
Except no yard up here builds that style of boat.
No doubt the disposal of so many total write off hulls is going to pose a
waste management problem.
Land fill sites don't want them, I have never heard of any recycling
methods for fiberglass.
So what do you do with a whole lot of used fiberglas?
If the hull itself is not badly damaged except for cosmetic scratches and
minor dings, it can become a good project boat.
As long as you recognize that it is the same as doign a total rebuild from
the keel up.
If the cost of acquisition is les than the cost of buying a new bare hull,
this kind of recycling makes sense.
Especially since the cost fo resin rises as petroleum feed stock also goes
up with the cost of crudde oil per barrel.
BTW a complete rewire is likely going to cost in the range of $30K - $40K
for an under 50' boat in case anyone is wondering.
regards
Arild
No Surprise on the cost of rewiring. I don't know about what he paid--and
he may have some connections--however most insurance companies want to get
as much as they can out of the hulls and they are auctioned, if the owner
does not do a buy back. I am amazed at how much many of these boats go
for--and as noted, if professionally restored, will cost more than a good
used boat in excellent condition. If you look at it as just the cost of a
hull, that is OK, but there are costs in removing interiour and machinery as
well as cleaning.
Good luck on the rewire!
Regards,
Bob Austin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arild Jensen" elnav@uniserve.com
To: "Bob Austin" thataway4@cox.net; "Trawler world"
trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: resurrected boats from previous huricanes,
----- Original Message -----
Bob Austin wrote:
Myself and a number of my cohorts are watching all of these boats
salvaged.
The boat I purchased and restored was completely restored in a month and
cost slightly more than I anticipated, since I had to purchase some new
components
snip<<<
There is a good reason that a totally submerged boat is written off
snip<<<
Arlid knows what the total rewire will cost. I would completely write off
the genset engine--it would have had salt water, and even after a week
there
would be bearing damage. At this time you will find that it is
unrepairable--unless it was immediately washed with fresh water, then
pickled.properly.
snip<<<
The 38 footer must have been a real bargin to have it trucked all the way
to
Vancouver! Good luck to the owner
REPLY
Thanks Bob for the run down. You pretty much confirmed what I suspected.
In the case of the 38 sportsfish the owner is already thinking in terms
of
total replacement of everything.
He is not thinking of salvaging anything.
He owns a marina and is therfore somewhat familiar with the damage you
get
from salt water immersion when the boat sinks..
He.chose this boat primarily because we do not se many sports fish hulls
up
here in PNW and he specifically wanted a huge cockpit that can accomodate
a
large group of people. All the fishing tackle stuff goes, as does much of
the interior.
I would not be surprised to learn that he got the hull basically for
nothing simply to remove it from the yard.
In which case the trucking cost amounts to the same as popping a new hul
from a mold.
Except no yard up here builds that style of boat.
No doubt the disposal of so many total write off hulls is going to pose a
waste management problem.
Land fill sites don't want them, I have never heard of any recycling
methods for fiberglass.
So what do you do with a whole lot of used fiberglas?
If the hull itself is not badly damaged except for cosmetic scratches and
minor dings, it can become a good project boat.
As long as you recognize that it is the same as doign a total rebuild
from
the keel up.
If the cost of acquisition is les than the cost of buying a new bare
hull,
this kind of recycling makes sense.
Especially since the cost fo resin rises as petroleum feed stock also goes
up with the cost of crudde oil per barrel.
BTW a complete rewire is likely going to cost in the range of $30K -
$40K
for an under 50' boat in case anyone is wondering.
regards
Arild
(SNIP) BTW a complete rewire is likely going to cost in the range of $30K
- $40K for an under 50' boat in case anyone is wondering. Regards Arild.
Would it be that expensive if you used a bus down each side of the boat and
tapped in to it as necessary?
Regards....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently lying Bond Creek, Pamlico River, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Rosch
Would it be that expensive if you used a bus down each side of the boat
and
tapped in to it as necessary?
REPLY
You have to distinguish between a DIY job and a regular professional yard
quote.
Yes, you can save money if you do not count your own time as having any
value.
Ihe its only the materials that cost. So any technique that saves on
material will look cheaper.
An assumption is also made that the DIY worker is as competent and has all
the requisite tools to match a professional job.
Nor is it fair to compare pricing on salvaged and scrounged material versus
brand name new equipment purchased at normal retail pricing.
The DIY can sometimes spend six months searching for and collecting useful
bits and piecesmwhich when assembled does match the quality of a regular
professional isntallation.
However, a regular commercial quote is based on prevaling prices in that
area from reputable suppliers selling national brand names.
Service yards expect to pick up a phone and call n an order using catalog
parts numbers and the stuff gets delivered to the yard.
Spending an hour on the phone trying to save $30 on a battery or fuse panel
is counter productive. Yard rates are typically around $60 - $100 / hour.
I used to wonder why so many yards did odd things instead of using just
her right product or device.
The itdawned on me that often the poor yard electrician is simply told to
use these parts to fix that boat.
Purchasing is based strictly on who th eyard has an account with, not on who
has the best and technically superior product.
This kind of product selection is the domain of the custom or semi custom
boat done to teh specific requirements of a discering owner.
Cheers
Arild