I just had to weigh in with this thread. Couldn't stand it any more! (I'm not in the biz but I have had a lot of experience) There seems to be a misconception of the role of the broker in selling a yacht. The Selling (listing) broker works exclusively for the seller and is paid on commission from the sale. The broker would be foolish to volunteer the bad news about a boat they were selling. Reputable brokers will just remain silent on issues they may know will diminish the boat's sales price. It would be a disservice to their clients (the seller) to voluntarily offer opinions that would diminish the sales price and it reduces their sales commission to do so. This is really the same process as buying a house but the housing sales industry is very regulated. Boat selling has no regulations. The compliance with practices and standards followed by brokerage organizations, is a voluntary standard at best. Brokers expect (rightly so) that the buyer is totally responsible for an adequate survey the boat and the judgment of its condition and value. As someone else correctly pointed out, it is in the qualification and selection of the SURVEYORs that this whole process sometimes slips. The surveyors must work exclusively for the buyer. It is their job to evaluate the boat and present the potential buyer with a comprehensive analysis of its strengths and shortcomings. The short form of this harangue is this: Do NOT automatically accept a surveyor recommended by the sales broker. In fact be very leery of such a recommendation. It is not in the best interest of a broker (who represents the seller), for you to get a comprehensive survey that diminishes the value of the boat. Brokers and surveyors exist together in the small marine community and must be careful of their relationships. Often a surveyor is beholding to the broker for the referrals. Often the broker is beholding to a surveyor for down-playing problems and thereby facilitating the sale. So find a truly independent surveyor if you can. If the boat is very valuable, consider flying a surveyor in from someplace else. A had a friend fly his surveyor from Portland OR to Florida for a week long survey on a 1.5 million dollar used trawler. When the dust settled, he had reduced his buying price by $250,000.00. So it was obviously worth every penny and much more. Search for a highly experienced (WITH YOUR BOAT style or brand) independent surveyor. This surveyor will know where to look for trouble because he knows from experience where trouble occurs, with this brand of boat. And here's some great tips folks. When you have narrowed your search to the "chosen one," take your chosen surveyor to lunch before the survey. Tell him you want the "very deluxe" survey. Tell him you are very willing to pay extra. Tell him to take the time to open things, unscrew stuff, look in the hard to reach places, turn everything on, test everything. Otherwise the surveyor will be compelled to put in caveats that talk about inaccessible areas and untested equipment, etc. These are the very areas that you need to look at. An extra $500.00 can save you many thousands. Do not have the selling broker in attendance when the survey is conducted. A hovering broker will try to offset every negative and influence the surveyor. Tell the broker to take a long lunch break <g>. Make sure you tell the surveyor that the survey is to be yours alone. No other involved parties are to see it unless you say so. This is your right. Do not discuss this survey with the broker yet. It is to the brokers advantage to be forewarned and have his list of why all these problems are really no big deal. Meet with the surveyor again after the survey and talk with him about his findings (pay him for this time.) Ask him to give his opinions of the cost to correct deficiencies or ask him to recommend a yard where you can take the survey to get these costs accurately estimated. The brokerage is not the place to judge the cost of repairs. Do this exact same process for the "Engines Survey" (including generator). Don't use the boat surveyor. Find the qualified (on your engines) diesel mechanic. Sometimes the best place is the local same brand engine dealer. Find the "old guy who knows everything about" your engines. Pay him extra. Tell him to really go after the engines and make sure they are OK. In this case $300.00 can save you $50,000.00 very easily. So now you have a comprehensive survey and a realistic estimate of cost to correct problems found. If you still want the boat you can re-approach the broker and play "let's make a deal." Even if the broker squirms and protests, tell him to make your offer to the seller. Tell him you will meet with the seller to go over the problems and expenses. Do not leave a copy of your surveys with the broker or the seller, they're yours. The broker and seller are under no obligation to correct the defects UNLESS you signed a common agreement before the sale that the seller would do so. Even then, the seller can just walk away and you are out the cost of the survey. But that's better than an unexpected $50,000.00 repair bill. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Mojena [mailto:mojena@uriacc.uri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 8:56 AM To: trawler-world-buy-sell-trade@samurai.com Subject: BST: Surveyor site Have been following the broker discussion with keen interest, as I'm both selling my boat privately and looking for another trawler at the same time. The Web site http://www.yachtsurvey.com/index.html is the most helpful I've found yet regarding many issues in buying and maintaining a boat. Anyone fairly new to the "brokerless" approach should get much out of the essays "The Art of the Deal" and "All About Our PrePurchase Surveys." Has anyone used David Pascoe? Richard Mojena