Fracking has driven down the price of natural gas and should do the same for propane because propane is produced along with natural gas from the same well. LNG is liquefied natural gas and must be cooled to hundreds of degrees below zero to liquify. It must be stored in double wall insulated tanks. LNG can be very dangerous. An empty (well not quite) LNG tank blew up 40 years ago on Staten Island and ever since then the NIMBY principle has prevented most LNG facilities from being built in the US. I doubt if we will ever see it for boating use. CNG (compressed natural gas) is safer and is currently used for city buses, but it takes up several times the volume of diesel so I don't see it being adopted for boats. Propane, a liquefied petroleum gas, has similar problems and we have all read the debates about the safety of propane stoves. Think about how you are going to vent your 200 gallon propane tank down in the bilge. Diesel is more expensive than gasoline simply due to supply and demand. US. refineries can make about 0.5 gal of gasoline from a gal of crude oil, but only 0.2 of diesel. That will slowly change as refineries are modified. Actually you can make diesel from natural gas. That possibility might happen in the US, but I don't see diesel ever being cheaper than gasoline. David

I don't understand this. Before the Oil Crisis during the Carter administration Diesel was always cheaper than regular gasoline. Then with the shortage the prices shot up above the cost of high test gasoline. As far as I know nothing changed in the making of the products. All I have been able to figure is the oil companies knew they could raise the cost of Diesel because the trucking industry would have to pay it or shut down. They did after some justified bitching. I also have been told that the cost of making Diesel is just a bit more than home heating fuel which is very unrefined. If my memory serves me Diesel for cars in Italy (last bought there was 2004) was cheaper than auto gasoline. Could it be that in the US we are being gouged for Diesel because of the massive truck industry and its willingness and ability to pay the high prices? George SUBITO - Huckins 46 Charleston, SC On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 2:08 AM, David Marchand <dmfeelingroovy@gmail.com>wrote: > Fracking has driven down the price of natural gas and should do the same > for propane because propane is produced along with natural gas from the > same well. > > LNG is liquefied natural gas and must be cooled to hundreds of degrees > below zero to liquify. It must be stored in double wall insulated tanks. > > LNG can be very dangerous. An empty (well not quite) LNG tank blew up 40 > years ago on Staten Island and ever since then the NIMBY principle has > prevented most LNG facilities from being built in the US. I doubt if we > will ever see it for boating use. > > CNG (compressed natural gas) is safer and is currently used for city buses, > but it takes up several times the volume of diesel so I don't see it being > adopted for boats. > > Propane, a liquefied petroleum gas, has similar problems and we have all > read the debates about the safety of propane stoves. Think about how you > are going to vent your 200 gallon propane tank down in the bilge. > > Diesel is more expensive than gasoline simply due to supply and demand. US. > refineries can make about 0.5 gal of gasoline from a gal of crude oil, but > only 0.2 of diesel. That will slowly change as refineries are modified. > Actually you can make diesel from natural gas. That possibility might > happen in the US, but I don't see diesel ever being cheaper than gasoline. > > David > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change > email address, etc) go to: > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com > Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. >

When we got our first trawler in 1997, diesel was cheaper than gasoline on the water even though the reverse was true for the automobile/land versions of the fuels. It wasn't until about 6-8 years ago that the prices inverted. <><><><><><><><><><><><>Mozilla Thunderbird<><><><><><><><><><> Bob McLeran and Judy Young Manatee Cove Marina MV Sanderling Patrick Air Force Base DeFever 41 Trawler Melbourne, Florida Blog: http://mvsanderling.net/Blog Web: http://cruising.mvsanderling.net/ On 11/11/2012 9:10 AM, G W wrote: > I don't understand this. Before the Oil Crisis during the Carter > administration Diesel was always cheaper than regular gasoline.

Diesel and gasoline are determined by who is running the refinery. The crude oil goes into the bottom of the tower and depending on heat and pressure , the crude is forced up the refining tower, with bunker, heating, diesel, gasoline, etc is forced out. The refiners change the refineries depending on their need for heating oil, etc and the price of the various products. If they can make more money from a barrel of crude if they make diesel, they make more if it, if the profit is at gasoline, it goes there. Diesel costs the refineries less to produce and should cost the consumers less. Taxes and profits then mess this up. -----Original Message----- From: Trawlers-and-Trawlering [mailto:trawlers-bounces@lists.trawlering.com] On Behalf Of G W Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:11 AM To: David Marchand Cc: trawlers@lists.trawlering.com Subject: Re: T&T: Propane, LNG and diesel I don't understand this. Before the Oil Crisis during the Carter administration Diesel was always cheaper than regular gasoline. Then with the shortage the prices shot up above the cost of high test gasoline. As far as I know nothing changed in the making of the products. All I have been able to figure is the oil companies knew they could raise the cost of Diesel because the trucking industry would have to pay it or shut down. They did after some justified bitching. I also have been told that the cost of making Diesel is just a bit more than home heating fuel which is very unrefined. If my memory serves me Diesel for cars in Italy (last bought there was 2004) was cheaper than auto gasoline. Could it be that in the US we are being gouged for Diesel because of the massive truck industry and its willingness and ability to pay the high prices? George SUBITO - Huckins 46 Charleston, SC On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 2:08 AM, David Marchand <dmfeelingroovy@gmail.com>wrote: > Fracking has driven down the price of natural gas and should do the > same for propane because propane is produced along with natural gas > from the same well. > > LNG is liquefied natural gas and must be cooled to hundreds of degrees > below zero to liquify. It must be stored in double wall insulated tanks. > > LNG can be very dangerous. An empty (well not quite) LNG tank blew up > 40 years ago on Staten Island and ever since then the NIMBY principle > has prevented most LNG facilities from being built in the US. I doubt > if we will ever see it for boating use. > > CNG (compressed natural gas) is safer and is currently used for city > buses, but it takes up several times the volume of diesel so I don't > see it being adopted for boats. > > Propane, a liquefied petroleum gas, has similar problems and we have > all read the debates about the safety of propane stoves. Think about > how you are going to vent your 200 gallon propane tank down in the bilge. > > Diesel is more expensive than gasoline simply due to supply and demand. US. > refineries can make about 0.5 gal of gasoline from a gal of crude oil, > but only 0.2 of diesel. That will slowly change as refineries are modified. > Actually you can make diesel from natural gas. That possibility might > happen in the US, but I don't see diesel ever being cheaper than gasoline. > > David > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering > .com > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, > change email address, etc) go to: > http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering > .com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World > Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited. > _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

From Wikipedia: "The refining process that removes the sulfur also reduces the aromatic content and density of the fuel, resulting in a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. This decrease in energy content may result in slightly reduced peak power and fuel economy. The transition to ULSD is not without substantial costs. The US Government has estimated that pump prices for diesel fuel will increase between $.05 and $.25 per gallon as a result of the transition. And, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the domestic refining industry has invested over $8 Billion to comply with the new regulations." Frank Burrows

George, Diesel here is about 20% cheaper than gasoline. Per refinery sources, the cost to make a liter of low sulfur diesel is slightly more than the cost to make a liter of regular no-lead gasoline. Diesel is cheaper here because the governments of Europe (and Turkey) tax it less. My car on 50 liters of low sulfur diesel gets more than 1000 kilometers between fill ups. My car with a gasoline engine gets about 600 kilometers per fill up. Lee Marmaris On Nov 11, 2012, at 16:10 , G W wrote: I don't understand this. Before the Oil Crisis during the Carter...

-----Original Message----- When we got our first trawler in 1997, diesel was cheaper than gasoline on the water even though the reverse was true for the automobile/land versions of the fuels. It wasn't until about 6-8 years ago that the prices inverted. Bob, At least for the past 5 years diesel on the water has remained less expensive than gas in the Puget Sound area. Sometimes the difference is as much as $0.75 or more. A check of a local marina this AM revealed diesel is $4.01 and gas is $4.12. Ed Makin Do, PT-38 Brownsville, WA

This is a great web site concerning gas and diesel price trends as well as other information: http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/<http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/>

Marinas charge more for fuel than highway stations partly because they do a lot less volume. I believe that there is a federal highway tax on highway fuel that is not charged on marina fuel. So you have to be careful comparing highway vs marina. Frank Burrows