Skipper Bob has it correct as usual.  If you are only going to do the
Great Loop once and do not plan to make long range cruising your
lifestyle then the added cost of a diesel powered boat may not be
economical.  Using Skipper Bob's 6,000 mile Great Loop (ours was
6,724 going the Lake Champlain route) then at a fuel savings of
$13.000 (based on 6,000 miles and today's fuel prices) with diesel
engines versus gasoline, it would take 7-1/2 to 8 years of annual
cruising of 6,000 miles to amortize the $100,000 in added cost for a
comparable boat with diesel engine(s) and generator.

We split our Great Loop trip up into three boating seasons to spread
the cost over three years.  We went slow and averaged only 41 miles
per day and our average cruising speed was only 8.79 statute miles
per hour at 11.4 gallons per engine hour.

Our point is that if you slow down and smell the roses, you can
effect about 20 percent fuel savings versus going fast (17 knots) and
burning 40 gallons of gasoline per hour.

John Gill
AGLCA Looper

My 1995 Carver 355 Aft Cabin with a pair of 454 cic GM
gas engines will get about 1/2 mpg at WOT while making
about 24 smph.  Obviously, one would not run the loop that
way.  According to Boating Magazine's 1992 or 1993 test
of the 33 Aft Cabin (same hull as my boat), I expect I'd get
about 1.1 - 1.2 mpg running 1000-1200 rpm (5-7 smph).
Most often, I run between 1200 and 1500 rpm.  These
engines are positively loafing in this type of service and they
are likely to have a lifespan of considerably more than 2000
hours.  I have a 6.0 liter GM V-8 in my GMC truck and it uses
no oil between changes at 1300 hours of engine time and
is running just fine.

It does appear that comparisons of Diesel vs gasoline prices
are somewhat different between marine and highway usage.
However, marina fuel prices around here reflect the same
relationship as do highway gas stations.  Currently, gasoline
price here in Oklahoma City runs from $2.499 up to as much
as $2.999 per gallon.  Diesel is running from $2.999 upwards.
I choose the vehicle to drive based upon fuel cost per mile.
Right now, my big Ford F250 Diesel is sits in the driveway
while I drive the GMC to work.

Best regards,

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Oklahoma City, OK
m/v Another Adventure
on
Grand Lake - Oklahoma

----Original Message Follows----
From: John & Judy Gill twojscom@quadnet.net
To: great-loop@lists.samurai.com
Subject: GL:  Fuel Price
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:01:21 -0400

Skipper Bob has it correct as usual.  If you are only going to do the
Great Loop once and do not plan to make long range cruising your
lifestyle then the added cost of a diesel powered boat may not be
economical.  Using Skipper Bob's 6,000 mile Great Loop (ours was
6,724 going the Lake Champlain route) then at a fuel savings of
$13.000 (based on 6,000 miles and today's fuel prices) with diesel
engines versus gasoline, it would take 7-1/2 to 8 years of annual
cruising of 6,000 miles to amortize the $100,000 in added cost for a
comparable boat with diesel engine(s) and generator.

We split our Great Loop trip up into three boating seasons to spread
the cost over three years.  We went slow and averaged only 41 miles
per day and our average cruising speed was only 8.79 statute miles
per hour at 11.4 gallons per engine hour.

Our point is that if you slow down and smell the roses, you can
effect about 20 percent fuel savings versus going fast (17 knots) and
burning 40 gallons of gasoline per hour.

John Gill
AGLCA Looper

On the Loop in 2004 we measured exactly our gasoline usage and kept
complete records.  Our Floscans agreed with receipts within 3 percent.
(I never got around to calibrating the Floscans.)

Our 36 Mainship had twin Crusader 370 hp (350 cubic inch) gas engines
and our overall Loop average was 1.46 statute mpg.  We went "fast" (about 15
mph) when crossing large bodies of water but slow the rest of the time.
Much of the slow time we ran one engine at 1800 to 2000 rpm.

Using the Flowscans and an accurate fuel dipstick I was able to log each
day's mpg.  Looking back through the records I see that we typically got
1.6 to 1.8 mpg on days when we ran 7 to 8 mph all day.  With the
favorable current of the Illinois and Mississippi we usually got over 2 mpg.

Gas boats don't have to be such fuel hogs.  We used 3889 gallons.

I doubt my "new" Cat diesels and 43 foot trawler will do this well.

Jim Fidler  "Fiddlesticks"

Correction:

The 350 cubic inch Crusaders are 270 hp, not 370 hp.  My finger misbehaved.
Thanks Mac.

Jim Fidler  "Fiddlesticks"

Tommy,

Yes, I am sure that there are lots of used boats under $100.000 with
diesel engines available to do the Great Loop.  The cost differential
quoted is based on the price of new boats (Trawlers and Cabin
Cruisers) with diesel engines and generator versus those with
gasoline engines.  When we were thinking about doing the Loop, we
were told that positively we could not do it with our 36 ft Carver
Mariner because gasoline would bankrupt us.  We investigated the cost
to re-power with diesel engines and generator and the estimate was
well over $100.000.  So we did the Loop and spent $17,348 for gas.
We still have plenty left over to re-power if and when necessary!

If we had re-powered, I doubt if we would ever have been able to sell
the boat and recoup much or any of the investment to change from gas
to diesel.  We have two friends on our dock with 36 and 38 ft Carver
aft cabins with diesel engines and they can't sell them for what the
owners think they should be worth!  It's just my opinion, but they
will never see the extra money they spent for diesels -- and while
you think that I am misleading, I think that you are perpetuating the
myth that the Great Loop requires one to have diesel engines or a
slow Trawler.

John

=======================

WOW!!! "$17,348 for gas"

We started the Loop in Jan. of '03 and ended when we reached Fort Pierce, FL in July of '04. We didn't go up through Canada but did make several sid e trips within the USA and we spent just over $2500.00 on diesel.

Of course ours is a 34 Mainship with a 6.354 diesel in it. Burned about 1.47 gph at an average 6 knots.

Tommy,

Yes, I am sure that there are lots of used boats under $100.000 with
diesel engines available to do the Great Loop. The cost differential
quoted is based on the price of new boats (Trawlers and Cabin
Cruisers) with diesel engines and generator versus those with
gasoline engines. When we were thinking about doing the Loop, we
were told that positively we could not do it with our 36 ft Carver
Mariner because gasoline would bankrupt us. We investigated the cost
to re-power with diesel engines and generator and the estimate was
well over $100.000. So we did the Loop and spent $17,348 for gas.
We still have plenty left over to re-power if and when necessary!

If we had re-powered, I doubt if we would ever have been able to sell
the boat and recoup much or any of the investment to change from gas
to diesel. We have two friends on our dock with 36 and 38 ft Carver
aft cabins with diesel engines and they can't sell them for what the
owners think they should be worth! It's just my opinion, but they
will never see the extra money they spent for diesels -- and while
you think that I am misleading, I think that you are perpetuating the
myth that the Great Loop requires one to have diesel engines or a
slow Trawler.

John

=======================

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