A good thing to include in the "Measuring Protocol" The type of filtering used and a 24 hr plot would be a great thing to show. In the LM399 data reported below, Its noise starts at 10-30 uv PP (3 PPM) Once per minute averaged readings gave 2 uv PP (0.3 PPM) 21 min moving average data is below 0.5 uv PP (under 0.1 PP) The PP variation over a couple hours time where the temperature is not changing is about 0.5 PPM What I've seen is that the LM399 has good TC over a wide temperature but they can be pretty noisy PP short and medium term when measured at the sub PPM level. The total PP noise on the plot I posted of the selected 1N825#2, running at its 'Zero-TC' current shows about 0.1 PPM variation over the couple hours where the temperature is not changing. The plot is once per second samples taken from with a 15 sec analog RC filter time constant. http://www.febo.com/pipermail/volt-nuts/attachments/20110904/15d2a3ab/attachment-0001.jpg All 1N825 are not the same. Starting with a selected low noise one, it must then be aged and run in at 50 ma for a long time before it is fully stabilize. ws *********************** > From: "Andreas Jahn" <Andreas_-_Jahn at t-online.de> > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com> > >Hello, > >the red curve is one measurement with an integration time of 1 minute. >(about 350 measurement values of LTC2400 ADC with 10-30uVpp >noise averaged giving around 2 uVpp for 1 minute integration time). > >the light blue trace is the sliding average over 21 minutes of >the red curve.10 minutes before, current minute and 10 minutes after. >(so noise is reduced down to below 0.5uVpp). > >Total measuremen time (x-Axis) is around 940 minutes. > >with best regards >Andreas

Hello Warren, Im sorry that it got not very clear with the noise. Most of the noise shown in my diagram is not from the LM399 but from my ADC. When measuring the LM399 #2 alone I have around 1ppm of low frequency noise ( around 6,5uVpp) Attached a typical measurement with the oscilloscope and a 4th order bandpass-amplifier. 1 ppm (pp) noise is not too bad compared to the 0.6ppm of typical buried zener references like MAX6350. My other LM399 (#1) has only around 4 uVpp noise. But this reference is far less stable over time than LM399 #2. (although I have heard that with zeners the stability can be derrived from change of noise before and after pre-ageing). Of course noise is dependant on the zener current. So with the 1mA of the LM399 you will never reach the low noise values of a 7.5mA 1N82x or the 5mA LTZ1000. With best regards Andreas ----- Original Message ----- From: "WarrenS" <warrensjmail-one@yahoo.com> To: <volt-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards - Measuring Protocol > > A good thing to include in the "Measuring Protocol" > The type of filtering used and a 24 hr plot would be a great thing to > show. > > In the LM399 data reported below, Its noise starts at 10-30 uv PP (3 PPM) > Once per minute averaged readings gave 2 uv PP (0.3 PPM) > 21 min moving average data is below 0.5 uv PP (under 0.1 PP) > The PP variation over a couple hours time where the temperature is not > changing is about 0.5 PPM > > What I've seen is that the LM399 has good TC over a wide temperature but > they > can be pretty noisy PP short and medium term when measured at the sub PPM > level. > > The total PP noise on the plot I posted of the selected 1N825#2, running > at its 'Zero-TC' current > shows about 0.1 PPM variation over the couple hours where the temperature > is not changing. > The plot is once per second samples taken from with a 15 sec analog RC > filter time constant. > http://www.febo.com/pipermail/volt-nuts/attachments/20110904/15d2a3ab/attachment-0001.jpg > > All 1N825 are not the same. Starting with a selected low noise one, > it must then be aged and run in at 50 ma for a long time before it is > fully stabilize. > > ws > > *********************** >> From: "Andreas Jahn" <Andreas_-_Jahn at t-online.de> >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com> >> >>Hello, >> >>the red curve is one measurement with an integration time of 1 minute. >>(about 350 measurement values of LTC2400 ADC with 10-30uVpp >>noise averaged giving around 2 uVpp for 1 minute integration time). >> >>the light blue trace is the sliding average over 21 minutes of >>the red curve.10 minutes before, current minute and 10 minutes after. >>(so noise is reduced down to below 0.5uVpp). >> >>Total measuremen time (x-Axis) is around 940 minutes. >> >>with best regards >>Andreas > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi Warren, Do you have a feel for how these golden 1N825 tend to be distributed? For example. are ~10% of them ~10 times better than the rest in terms of stability? More like 1%? And, what is the stability of an unselected part? Thanks, John "WarrenS" <warrensjmail-one@yahoo.com> writes: > A good thing to include in the "Measuring Protocol" > The type of filtering used and a 24 hr plot would be a great thing to show. > > In the LM399 data reported below, Its noise starts at 10-30 uv PP (3 PPM) > Once per minute averaged readings gave 2 uv PP (0.3 PPM) > 21 min moving average data is below 0.5 uv PP (under 0.1 PP) > The PP variation over a couple hours time where the temperature is not > changing is about 0.5 PPM > > What I've seen is that the LM399 has good TC over a wide temperature > but they > can be pretty noisy PP short and medium term when measured at the sub > PPM level. > > The total PP noise on the plot I posted of the selected 1N825#2, > running at its 'Zero-TC' current > shows about 0.1 PPM variation over the couple hours where the > temperature is not changing. > The plot is once per second samples taken from with a 15 sec analog RC > filter time constant. > http://www.febo.com/pipermail/volt-nuts/attachments/20110904/15d2a3ab/attachment-0001.jpg > > All 1N825 are not the same. Starting with a selected low noise one, > it must then be aged and run in at 50 ma for a long time before it is > fully stabilize. > > ws > > *********************** >> From: "Andreas Jahn" <Andreas_-_Jahn at t-online.de> >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com> >> >>Hello, >> >>the red curve is one measurement with an integration time of 1 minute. >>(about 350 measurement values of LTC2400 ADC with 10-30uVpp >>noise averaged giving around 2 uVpp for 1 minute integration time). >> >>the light blue trace is the sliding average over 21 minutes of >>the red curve.10 minutes before, current minute and 10 minutes after. >>(so noise is reduced down to below 0.5uVpp). >> >>Total measuremen time (x-Axis) is around 940 minutes. >> >>with best regards >> Andreas > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- John Devereux