On Yacht World.com The following listings are noted on 2005 models: Selene 53 is listed at : $735,000 2000 Nordhavn 57 @ 1.1 million $ Selene 50 is listed at: $707,000 2003 Nordhavn 50 @ $995,000 Selene 47 is listed at: $589,000 2003 Nordhavn 47 @ $945,000 & 1.2Million Selene 43 is listed at: $516,000. No Nordhavn 43's used. The used boats will have electronics and most likely more upgrades. We looked at the Nordhavn/Selenes side byside at several events. Our preference was for the Nordhavn. One of the items which Marie noted is that one had to stand on the flyng bridge to get visability of the bow. There was also a 3 year old Selene 43 and a 3 year old Nordhavn 46. The Selene showed the wear more--needless to say that this could easily be the amount of use and the maintance by different owners. Again the engine room was better in the Nordhavn. The Diesel Duck 46 + 2 is advertised at $340,000--extras are outlined on the Sea Horse web site. For another $50,000 it looks as if you could get a boat suitable to take home on its own bottom---but as far as options go on any of the boats--the sky can be the limit!. So is a Selene twice the boat as a Diesel Duck is??? Bob Austin

Bob Austin wrote: The used boats will have electronics and most likely more upgrades. >>>>>> snip <<<<<<<<<<<< The Diesel Duck 46 + 2 is advertised at $340,000--extras are outlined on the Sea Horse web site. For another $50,000 it looks as if you could get a boat suitable to take home on its own bottom---but as far as options go on any of the boats--the sky can be the limit!. So is a Selene twice the boat as a Diesel Duck is??? REPLY Used electronics and upgrades. That brings up the issue of marketing and planned obsolescence. Some of you have noticed that my post suddenly appeared to be posted in 2002. The reason being I had to find a workaround to deal with something imbedded in an HP color printer. Many cruiser rely on printing out chartlets enroute. The3y may encounter a similar situation. Most electronic equipment is software driven. >From the posts on T&T it appears that most people use lot of high tech equipment. Other posts make it clear that more often than not, when something breaks down, finding repair parts can be a real challenge. Although coastal cruisers find it a nuisance, many simply accept it as inevitable. But what about deep sea passage makers? Consider the case of someone planning a five year sabbatical and doing an extended cruise to out of the way places. What do they do when their equipment is suddenly declared no longer supported by the manufacturer. I'm not just talking about electronics. Recent posts have asked about replacement window trim, door latches, deck and cabin hardware that fits with the existing hardware. This is an issue that is beyond the control of the builders. They can only use whatever products are offered by the manufacturers. Consider the implications for a cruising boat when some essential piece of gear breaks and can not be repaired. Not only might the replacement not fit exactly; but where do you find skilled service techs who can handle the replacement install? I used to be very enthusiastic about high tech. Given the present trends in marketing and planned obsolescence I am rapidly becoming an advocate for a retrograde move towards les complex systems, older style equipment and a return to what was the norm back when Robert Beebe was cruising in the original passagemaker. Arild

----- Original Message ----- From: "Arild Jensen" <elnav@uniserve.com> To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'" <passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com>; "'Phil Eslinger'" <pslinger@mindspring.com> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [PUP] cruising and obsolescence > Bob Austin wrote: > The used boats will have electronics and most likely more upgrades. > >>>>>> snip <<<<<<<<<<<< > The Diesel Duck 46 + 2 is advertised at $340,000--extras are outlined on > the Sea Horse web site. For another $50,000 it looks as if you could > get a boat suitable to take home on its own bottom---but as far as > options go on any of the boats--the sky can be the limit!. > > So is a Selene twice the boat as a Diesel Duck is??? > > > > REPLY > Used electronics and upgrades. > That brings up the issue of marketing and planned obsolescence. > > Some of you have noticed that my post suddenly appeared to be posted in > 2002. > The reason being I had to find a workaround to deal with something > imbedded in an HP color printer. Many cruiser rely on printing out > chartlets enroute. > The3y may encounter a similar situation. > Most electronic equipment is software driven. >>From the posts on T&T it appears that most people use lot of high tech > equipment. Other posts make it clear that more often than not, when > something breaks down, finding repair parts can be a real challenge. > Although coastal cruisers find it a nuisance, many simply accept it as > inevitable. > > But what about deep sea passage makers? Consider the case of someone > planning a five year sabbatical and doing an extended cruise to out of > the way places. What do they do when their equipment is suddenly > declared no longer supported by the manufacturer. > > I'm not just talking about electronics. Recent posts have asked about > replacement window trim, door latches, deck and cabin hardware that fits > with the existing hardware. > > This is an issue that is beyond the control of the builders. They can > only use whatever products are offered by the manufacturers. > > Consider the implications for a cruising boat when some essential piece > of gear breaks and can not be repaired. Not only might the replacement > not fit exactly; but where do you find skilled service techs who can > handle the replacement install? > > I used to be very enthusiastic about high tech. > Given the present trends in marketing and planned obsolescence I am > rapidly becoming an advocate for a retrograde move towards les complex > systems, older style equipment and a return to what was the norm back > when Robert Beebe was cruising in the original passagemaker. > > Arild > > _______________________________________________ > Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List