Bonjour, Bernard, I sold my plastic sailboat last year and recently bought a 1969 Grand Banks 32, all wood, and could not agree with you more. The boat is "alive", compared to my "dead" glass boat, and it does talk. and listen in ways hard to describe. It feels like something I can trust, in contrast to the 3/8" thin sheet of fiberglass with its pretence of protecting me from the elements. Both wood and Fiberglas "drink" some water, but wood digests it a lot better. Amen to your comments, I could not have said it better. PS By the way, I moved from Montreal to Nassau last summer, and enjoy the year-round conditions. The ice storm did it to me, and no taxes help some too. At 22:13 08/16/99 +0000, you wrote: >Bonjour, > >As the owner of a 1927 ketch, I have a hard time to understand the >systematic comments of M. Pilvinis about wooden boats. If I was asserting : >"Don't go with a captain over 50 years old on a charter boat, he's got to be >rotten and out of date, and he doesn't understand anything about new >technologies on boats, Y2K included" , what would you say? > >Maybe M. Pilvinis should tell us if he ever owned a wooden boat? If not, why >do you give your opinion? If yes, why did you buy it? How much did you pay >at that time? Was it a question of budget? What kind of misadventure did you >have to hate wood? I'm glad that Columbus, Marco Polo, Eric the Red,the >Romans, the Phenicians, and other explorers for centuries did not listen to >you. > >Young kid in the fifties, I discovered sailing on wooden boats, many of them >in plywood. Some were from the 1920's and 30's, anchoring in the bay all >year long, without pumps or batteries. Once a week, for a few pennies, we >would swim to each boat and bail out maybe two or three buckets, rarely >more. I've seen fiberglass boats "drinking" much more than that. I would not >easily buy a fiberglass boat from the sixties, potentially full of osmosis. > >When wood breaks, you know exactly where the trouble is. Hit a boat in >fiberglass, and you may end up with an invisible crack which will delaminate >the boat in surprising places. > >I am not saying that wood is perfect. It is generally heavier than plastic, >and needs its share of TLC. After all, it's a boat : a hole surrounded by >wood, steel or plastic in which you throw your money. > >If you're not a purist, today's silicones and epoxy can help, like they do >with steel and plastic. Wood is comfortable, warm, alive. It kills >vibrations, it "talks" to you and almost tells you what it needs... And this >is very true on a wooden sailboat with a wooden mast : you know the limit, >you know the comfort zone. Wood warns you. > >A wooden boat lives easily 40 to 50 years. That was the average age for the >fleet of schooners on the St-Lawrence River, 30 for the fishing boats in >France. The old sailors were telling us that the secret was oil paint, and >more oil paint. It keeps the wood intact, repulse the worms, is more >flexible than epoxy paint, and fills the slightest hole. Those who had >engines were used to wash the bilge with the old engine oil... and the wood >would gladly drink it. > >As a writer, I will probably never be able to buy a $500 000 boat. But I can >buy quite a nice wooden boat for $50 000, and give her some of my time and >personal craftsman skills instead of money. At least, I'll be on the water. >I consider a 32' wooden boat takes 5 days of work more in a year than >fiberglass. Not bad to save the difference of 450 000$... > >And I have to say that I never turned with my wooden boat around some >multi-millions $$ boats, but they turned over mine more than I would ever >expect. My boat (or is my girl-friend? I wonder, suddenly) must be on >hundred of home-made videos. > >Finally, you should see in my house some of my wooden furniture : authentic >350 years old, coming from my father, and his, and his, etc, from houses on >the ocean with no heat except fireplace, and a lot of humidity. Top shape. >350 years : think about it > >Rot is not the sickness of wood, it is the sickness of the owner. Steve, if >you like your boat, you won't let the rot start, just like rust for steel. >And it is easier to deal with screws, oak, and mahogany, than to sand >fiberglass or to weld steel. > >Bernard Veyron >Noirmoutier >Montreal, Canada > Maurice Marwood

Bonjour, As the owner of a 1927 ketch, I have a hard time to understand the systematic comments of M. Pilvinis about wooden boats. If I was asserting : "Don't go with a captain over 50 years old on a charter boat, he's got to be rotten and out of date, and he doesn't understand anything about new technologies on boats, Y2K included" , what would you say? Maybe M. Pilvinis should tell us if he ever owned a wooden boat? If not, why do you give your opinion? If yes, why did you buy it? How much did you pay at that time? Was it a question of budget? What kind of misadventure did you have to hate wood? I'm glad that Columbus, Marco Polo, Eric the Red,the Romans, the Phenicians, and other explorers for centuries did not listen to you. Young kid in the fifties, I discovered sailing on wooden boats, many of them in plywood. Some were from the 1920's and 30's, anchoring in the bay all year long, without pumps or batteries. Once a week, for a few pennies, we would swim to each boat and bail out maybe two or three buckets, rarely more. I've seen fiberglass boats "drinking" much more than that. I would not easily buy a fiberglass boat from the sixties, potentially full of osmosis. When wood breaks, you know exactly where the trouble is. Hit a boat in fiberglass, and you may end up with an invisible crack which will delaminate the boat in surprising places. I am not saying that wood is perfect. It is generally heavier than plastic, and needs its share of TLC. After all, it's a boat : a hole surrounded by wood, steel or plastic in which you throw your money. If you're not a purist, today's silicones and epoxy can help, like they do with steel and plastic. Wood is comfortable, warm, alive. It kills vibrations, it "talks" to you and almost tells you what it needs... And this is very true on a wooden sailboat with a wooden mast : you know the limit, you know the comfort zone. Wood warns you. A wooden boat lives easily 40 to 50 years. That was the average age for the fleet of schooners on the St-Lawrence River, 30 for the fishing boats in France. The old sailors were telling us that the secret was oil paint, and more oil paint. It keeps the wood intact, repulse the worms, is more flexible than epoxy paint, and fills the slightest hole. Those who had engines were used to wash the bilge with the old engine oil... and the wood would gladly drink it. As a writer, I will probably never be able to buy a $500 000 boat. But I can buy quite a nice wooden boat for $50 000, and give her some of my time and personal craftsman skills instead of money. At least, I'll be on the water. I consider a 32' wooden boat takes 5 days of work more in a year than fiberglass. Not bad to save the difference of 450 000$... And I have to say that I never turned with my wooden boat around some multi-millions $$ boats, but they turned over mine more than I would ever expect. My boat (or is my girl-friend? I wonder, suddenly) must be on hundred of home-made videos. Finally, you should see in my house some of my wooden furniture : authentic 350 years old, coming from my father, and his, and his, etc, from houses on the ocean with no heat except fireplace, and a lot of humidity. Top shape. 350 years : think about it Rot is not the sickness of wood, it is the sickness of the owner. Steve, if you like your boat, you won't let the rot start, just like rust for steel. And it is easier to deal with screws, oak, and mahogany, than to sand fiberglass or to weld steel. Bernard Veyron Noirmoutier Montreal, Canada

At 10:13 PM 8/16/99 +0000, b. veyron wrote: >Bonjour, >As a writer, I will probably never be able to buy a $500 000 boat. But I can >buy quite a nice wooden boat for $50 000, and give her some of my time and >personal craftsman skills instead of money. At least, I'll be on the water. >I consider a 32' wooden boat takes 5 days of work more in a year than >fiberglass. Not bad to save the difference of 450 000$... Not all fiberglass boats cost half a million dollars. (heaven knows mine didn't!) If comparing new cost, new wood boats cost more than fiberglass in many cases (at least from what I've seen). I will grant you that, for a given class of used boat, wood may be less expensive to purchase (probably because they are generally older), but I think maintenance costs can be higher, all other factors being the same (propulsion, equipment, systems etc., being the same). I once heard the estimate that one should budget about 20% of the value of a wood boat for annual maintenance to the hull as a rule of thumb. Is this close to reality? Obviously wood-challenged, Frank Timpano Hatteras 38 DCMY, "Discovery" Deltaville, Virginia on Chesapeake Bay.