Re : insurance live-a-boards
It never ceases to amaze me why carriers don't analyze the actual experience
of live-aboards. My guess is our rates would be lower, not higher.
Regards....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Vero Beach, FL.
As a live-a-board I have to totally agree with the above statement. For us
that have chosen this lifestyle make sure you are aware of the differences in
insurance polices. Do you have live-a-board insurance or is it a vessel policy
with granted to live-a-board status as a clause. Wow as a person on the water
24/7 I get to see a lot of action protecting others investments. The personal
liability of those actions are not covered by regular vessel insurance ( go
figure ). If your primary residence is a home on land and you hold a policy
on that you would most likely be covered for such actions by your home policy.
As my principle residence is the boat regular vessel insurance has no such
personal liability coverage. Some Live-a-board insurance will include personal
liability coverage and that increased my cost by 800.00 cad. per year compared
to insurance that has no such coverage. That liability coverage was the main
difference between the policies. Statistically we live-a-boards are more
active with respect to insurance claims. However insurance companies have not
chosen to record statistically the claims we as live-a-boards have saved them!
I think this proves the boating community as a whole is willing to help each
other more so than neighbours in a subdivision or apartment. Otherwise the
cost of that personal liability coverage for a live-a-board insurance policy
would be more in line with the home insurance policy.
Cost of being a good neighbour .
Willy
Invader#1
39 Kishi conversion
Several years ago I had a conversation with the BoatUS VP of
Underwriting urging consideration for the option to add non-boating,
personal liability to the policies of their liveaboard insureds (slips &
falls, dog bites, etc., like the coverage included on homeowner's
policies).
While that is certainly a desirable addition, as I recall, the question
of how to rate such coverage was one of the problems. Basically since
they don't (or at least didn't at the time) keep track of the
distinction between liveaboards and non-liveaboards, they have no loss
information on which to base rates. Additional they don't really know
how big the market is for such coverage.
As an ex-underwriter, I would expect that losses in this area may be
very hard to predict. Also, it's difficult to estimate and get enough
premium to cover large, infrequent losses, which is what I would suspect
loss activity for this coverage would look like. Here's another
consideration. I find it hard to imagine a more diverse small group.
On one hand you have very responsible people, and on the other hand you
have exactly the opposite. Again the group is relatively small and the
losses are potentially large and unpredictable. The only way I can see
this coverage being available (from any carrier) is if the insurance
company just simply decides to "toss it in" on their regular policy.
It is definitely a short-coming on the BoatUS form for those who don't
have personal liability coverage elsewhere.
Phil de l'Etoile
37' Lord Nelson Victory Tug
San Francisco Bay Area
CFE Inc. wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me why carriers don't analyze the actual experience
of live-aboards. My guess is our rates would be lower, not higher.
Regards....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V Curmudgeon MT-44TC
Currently moored in Vero Beach, FL.
As a live-a-board I have to totally agree with the above statement. For us
that have chosen this lifestyle make sure you are aware of the differences in
insurance polices. Do you have live-a-board insurance or is it a vessel policy
with granted to live-a-board status as a clause. Wow as a person on the water
24/7 I get to see a lot of action protecting others investments. The personal
liability of those actions are not covered by regular vessel insurance ( go
figure ). If your primary residence is a home on land and you hold a policy
on that you would most likely be covered for such actions by your home policy.
As my principle residence is the boat regular vessel insurance has no such
personal liability coverage. Some Live-a-board insurance will include personal
liability coverage and that increased my cost by 800.00 cad. per year compared
to insurance that has no such coverage. That liability coverage was the main
difference between the policies. Statistically we live-a-boards are more
active with respect to insurance claims. However insurance companies have not
chosen to record statistically the claims we as live-a-boards have saved them!
I think this proves the boating community as a whole is willing to help each
other more so than neighbours in a subdivision or apartment. Otherwise the
cost of that personal liability coverage for a live-a-board insurance policy
would be more in line with the home insurance policy.
Cost of being a good neighbour .
Willy
Invader#1
39 Kishi conversion
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Hi Phil,
You are right and that is why I specifically chose the Quartermaster
Liveaboard policy from Zurich when we moved aboard and severed all ties with
home-related insurance a year ago. No connection with them other than being
a satisfied customer.
Bob Peterson
47' Lien Hwa CMY
"Lopaka Nane"
San Francisco
-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Phil
de l'Etoile
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:24 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: T&T: Re : insurance live-a-boards
Several years ago I had a conversation with the BoatUS VP of Underwriting
urging consideration for the option to add non-boating, personal liability
to the policies of their liveaboard insureds (slips & falls, dog bites,
etc., like the coverage included on homeowner's policies).
While that is certainly a desirable addition, as I recall, the question of
how to rate such coverage was one of the problems. Basically since they
don't (or at least didn't at the time) keep track of the distinction between
liveaboards and non-liveaboards, they have no loss information on which to
base rates. Additional they don't really know how big the market is for
such coverage.
As an ex-underwriter, I would expect that losses in this area may be very
hard to predict. Also, it's difficult to estimate and get enough premium to
cover large, infrequent losses, which is what I would suspect loss activity
for this coverage would look like. Here's another consideration. I find it
hard to imagine a more diverse small group.
On one hand you have very responsible people, and on the other hand you have
exactly the opposite. Again the group is relatively small and the
losses are potentially large and unpredictable. The only way I can see
this coverage being available (from any carrier) is if the insurance company
just simply decides to "toss it in" on their regular policy.
It is definitely a short-coming on the BoatUS form for those who don't have
personal liability coverage elsewhere.
Phil de l'Etoile
37' Lord Nelson Victory Tug
San Francisco Bay Area