Ahhh, and now a question for that generation that, "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." Reflection on the cost of labor rates which is being discussed - and how greatly they vary from one place to another - got me thinking about a related subject. Prior to becoming a trawler-crawler, I never heard the term "Boat Unit" used or in print in any of the sailing publications that I read. In fact, the first few times I saw the term on TWL, I was a little baffled. What does it mean? Eventually, I deduced from usage that a Boat Unit was the expenditure of $1,000 for equipment or hardware, etc., and usually made in a very short time period. Thus, when you get a "new" trawler, you are going to have several weeks or even months in which you make purchases exceeding a Boat Unit. Simply then, it is a Boat Dollar Unit (BDU) that is another way of saying, "I just spent $1,000" for something got for my boat. But the dollar outlay is frequently the least of your concerns when you purchase a piece of equipment and you, or some yard, has to install it. Why not use some term, like Boat Labor Unit (BLU) that along with the BDU provides a more accurate picture of what it really costs to play this game? And if you agree that some abbreviated term would be useful, what or how many hours of work, perspiration, or skinned knuckles should it be? I've invested six months in the refitting of my Marine Trader 44, and while the number of BDU's expended has clear meaning to a non-boater, I'd welcome a way, and a short hand term like BLU's, that would allow a comparison of the work or labor that was involved, and hours just doesn't cut it. Hours expended do not convey any meaning with regard to the difficulty, the skill levels needed, the experience or training involved, the physical energy outlay, or just the frustration involved due to difficult conditions. Oh yes, I forgot to mention the cost of diesel in St. Marks, FL, this weekend was $1.479 tax included! Ciao. Martin I. Veiner Marine Trader DC 44 ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com

Martin I. Veiner wrote: -----Original Message----- the dollar outlay is frequently the least of your concerns when you purchase a piece of equipment and you, or some yard, has to install it. Why not use some term, like Boat Labor Unit (BLU) that along with the BDU provides a more accurate picture of what it really costs >>> snip<<< I'd welcome a way, and a short hand term like BLU's, that would allow a comparison of the work or labor that was involved, and hours just doesn't cut it. REPLY You. me and every guy in the trade wants that. Trying to estimate a custom job is not impossible but it certainly isn't easy. Every boat is different, because each owner adds unique things or adds the same thing but in a different place. Each layer of equipment in front simply makes access to the back that more difficult if not impossible. You can se it but can't reach it. Or you can touch it but can't get a wrench or screwdriver to fit properly. And every owner has a different preference. So no two jobs on similar boats are alike. You are assuming that labor units can be derived in the same way the automobile shops have a flat rate table for standardized tasks using hand tools in a well equipped shop with a lift etc. based on identical production models. By now you must realize that even so called similar boats differ greatly by the time they have had a couple of owners. And don't forget the trades person who comes do a simple job may in fact require some very expensive tools to do it. Somehow that cost has to be recouped. My van was broken into the other day at a marina and my briefcase stolen. It was a computer carry case but filled with paperwork. I lost a $500 digital camera but the thief left behind more than $2000 worth of meters, crimpers and other specialized tools in the back seat. Guess I should consider myself lucky. The point is, when you do all your own work, you either buy those tools or you improvise with something not always suitable. Doesn't matter if it is mechanical electrical or refrigeration. Even good quality wood working hand tools are not cheap. Cheers Arild. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002