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Re: [volt-nuts] Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)

WA
ws at Yahoo
Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:00 PM

Power factor correction power supplies has not been a BIG problem with my
OLD recycled equipment.
I tried to Cover that case in my end note,
With switchers, turn the variact to normal and use the other safety features
and a big enough light bulb to keep from blowing it all up if something is
wrong.

ws


Poul-Henning Kamp phk at phk.freebsd.dk

In message "WarrenS" writes:

I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I
try
it.
(especially if it had a blown fuse)

Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester
for
Old (and new) equipment.

That procedure is fine for linear power-supplies, but not resonably
modern switch-modes.  In particular, anything that has PFC correction
is not going to respond too well to variable voltage like that.

Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20


I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I
try
it.
(especially if it had a blown fuse)

Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester
for
Old (and new) equipment.
This is a great tool that can be used for trouble things that draw too
much
current, has shorts, for reforming caps, Testing line voltage sensitivity
etc, etc.

First time powered up test equipment is powered from:

  1. A line voltage rate light bulb in series, starting with a low wattage
    and
    working  your way up.
    The light bulb acts Nonlinear variable dropping resistor, which act like a
    current limit and will limit the max current to a safe value but still
    have
    minimum effect at lower currents due to it's Hi TC.

  2. The voltage to the Light bulb comes which from adjustable variact.
    The voltage rise and the Time at each voltage setting is a learned
    function
    and depends on what is being tested.
    If you're in a hurry, set it to the nominal line output and flip the
    switch.
    The rest of the stuff will still provide protection.

  3. The Variact is plugged into a KillAwatt meter
    Used to constantly monitor the power, If it shows too much power is being
    used, ... Well don't let it do that..

  4. The Kill-a-W is plugged into a solatron 1 to 1 line regulating
    transformer.
    My Line regulating Solitron has the very desirable built in characteristic
    that it goes into a saturation mode that limits the max output power if
    overloaded
    If not overloaded, it outputs a constant voltage.

  5. Have a few resetable and/or  standard  fuses in there to be over safe.

The proper use of the variact's output voltage has a learning curve,
because
equipment with switchers behave differently than things with linearly
supplies

ws


Power factor correction power supplies has not been a BIG problem with my OLD recycled equipment. I tried to Cover that case in my end note, With switchers, turn the variact to normal and use the other safety features and a big enough light bulb to keep from blowing it all up if something is wrong. ws ***************** Poul-Henning Kamp phk at phk.freebsd.dk >In message "WarrenS" writes: > >I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I >try >it. >(especially if it had a blown fuse) > >Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester >for >Old (and new) equipment. That procedure is fine for linear power-supplies, but not resonably modern switch-modes. In particular, anything that has PFC correction is not going to respond too well to variable voltage like that. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 *************** > > I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I > try > it. > (especially if it had a blown fuse) > > Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester > for > Old (and new) equipment. > This is a great tool that can be used for trouble things that draw too > much > current, has shorts, for reforming caps, Testing line voltage sensitivity > etc, etc. > > First time powered up test equipment is powered from: > > 1) A line voltage rate light bulb in series, starting with a low wattage > and > working your way up. > The light bulb acts Nonlinear variable dropping resistor, which act like a > current limit and will limit the max current to a safe value but still > have > minimum effect at lower currents due to it's Hi TC. > > 2) The voltage to the Light bulb comes which from adjustable variact. > The voltage rise and the Time at each voltage setting is a learned > function > and depends on what is being tested. > If you're in a hurry, set it to the nominal line output and flip the > switch. > The rest of the stuff will still provide protection. > > 3) The Variact is plugged into a KillAwatt meter > Used to constantly monitor the power, If it shows too much power is being > used, ... Well don't let it do that.. > > 4) The Kill-a-W is plugged into a solatron 1 to 1 line regulating > transformer. > My Line regulating Solitron has the very desirable built in characteristic > that it goes into a saturation mode that limits the max output power if > overloaded > If not overloaded, it outputs a constant voltage. > > 5) Have a few resetable and/or standard fuses in there to be over safe. > > The proper use of the variact's output voltage has a learning curve, > because > equipment with switchers behave differently than things with linearly > supplies > > ws > > *****************
G
gbusg
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 12:55 AM

I like your test method, Warren.

Regarding switch-mode power supply issues: Once or twice a year we had power
brown-outs in the neighborhood where I used to work. The lights would dim,
but power wouldn't necessarily cut-out completely right away. You could hear
various computers and pieces of equipment intermittently beeping or humming,
and relays clicking in some equipment. At that point we would manually
turn-off all equipment as quickly as possible!

After power returned to normal and we turned everything back on, there was
about a 50% chance one or more HP 8662A signal generators were smoked. The
problem was always the switch mode power supplies in them. Most HP equipment
seemed to survive the brown-out, but, based on those experiences, I would be
leery (if not downright afraid) to try running a 8662A on reduced AC primary
voltage.

-Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: "ws at Yahoo" warrensjmail-one@yahoo.com
To: volt-nuts@febo.com; time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)

Power factor correction power supplies has not been a BIG problem with my
OLD recycled equipment.
I tried to Cover that case in my end note,
With switchers, turn the variact to normal and use the other safety features
and a big enough light bulb to keep from blowing it all up if something is
wrong.

ws


Poul-Henning Kamp phk at phk.freebsd.dk

In message "WarrenS" writes:

I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I
try
it.
(especially if it had a blown fuse)

Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester
for
Old (and new) equipment.

That procedure is fine for linear power-supplies, but not resonably
modern switch-modes.  In particular, anything that has PFC correction
is not going to respond too well to variable voltage like that.

Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20


I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I
try
it.
(especially if it had a blown fuse)

Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester
for
Old (and new) equipment.
This is a great tool that can be used for trouble things that draw too
much
current, has shorts, for reforming caps, Testing line voltage sensitivity
etc, etc.

First time powered up test equipment is powered from:

  1. A line voltage rate light bulb in series, starting with a low wattage
    and
    working  your way up.
    The light bulb acts Nonlinear variable dropping resistor, which act like a
    current limit and will limit the max current to a safe value but still
    have
    minimum effect at lower currents due to it's Hi TC.

  2. The voltage to the Light bulb comes which from adjustable variact.
    The voltage rise and the Time at each voltage setting is a learned
    function
    and depends on what is being tested.
    If you're in a hurry, set it to the nominal line output and flip the
    switch.
    The rest of the stuff will still provide protection.

  3. The Variact is plugged into a KillAwatt meter
    Used to constantly monitor the power, If it shows too much power is being
    used, ... Well don't let it do that..

  4. The Kill-a-W is plugged into a solatron 1 to 1 line regulating
    transformer.
    My Line regulating Solitron has the very desirable built in characteristic
    that it goes into a saturation mode that limits the max output power if
    overloaded
    If not overloaded, it outputs a constant voltage.

  5. Have a few resetable and/or  standard  fuses in there to be over safe.

The proper use of the variact's output voltage has a learning curve,
because
equipment with switchers behave differently than things with linearly
supplies

ws



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I like your test method, Warren. Regarding switch-mode power supply issues: Once or twice a year we had power brown-outs in the neighborhood where I used to work. The lights would dim, but power wouldn't necessarily cut-out completely right away. You could hear various computers and pieces of equipment intermittently beeping or humming, and relays clicking in some equipment. At that point we would manually turn-off all equipment as quickly as possible! After power returned to normal and we turned everything back on, there was about a 50% chance one or more HP 8662A signal generators were smoked. The problem was always the switch mode power supplies in them. Most HP equipment seemed to survive the brown-out, but, based on those experiences, I would be leery (if not downright afraid) to try running a 8662A on reduced AC primary voltage. -Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "ws at Yahoo" <warrensjmail-one@yahoo.com> To: <volt-nuts@febo.com>; <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...) Power factor correction power supplies has not been a BIG problem with my OLD recycled equipment. I tried to Cover that case in my end note, With switchers, turn the variact to normal and use the other safety features and a big enough light bulb to keep from blowing it all up if something is wrong. ws ***************** Poul-Henning Kamp phk at phk.freebsd.dk >In message "WarrenS" writes: > >I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I >try >it. >(especially if it had a blown fuse) > >Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester >for >Old (and new) equipment. That procedure is fine for linear power-supplies, but not resonably modern switch-modes. In particular, anything that has PFC correction is not going to respond too well to variable voltage like that. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 *************** > > I don't plug ANYTHING new to me, directly into the line the first time I > try > it. > (especially if it had a blown fuse) > > Here is the solution that I use for a universal, general purpose, tester > for > Old (and new) equipment. > This is a great tool that can be used for trouble things that draw too > much > current, has shorts, for reforming caps, Testing line voltage sensitivity > etc, etc. > > First time powered up test equipment is powered from: > > 1) A line voltage rate light bulb in series, starting with a low wattage > and > working your way up. > The light bulb acts Nonlinear variable dropping resistor, which act like a > current limit and will limit the max current to a safe value but still > have > minimum effect at lower currents due to it's Hi TC. > > 2) The voltage to the Light bulb comes which from adjustable variact. > The voltage rise and the Time at each voltage setting is a learned > function > and depends on what is being tested. > If you're in a hurry, set it to the nominal line output and flip the > switch. > The rest of the stuff will still provide protection. > > 3) The Variact is plugged into a KillAwatt meter > Used to constantly monitor the power, If it shows too much power is being > used, ... Well don't let it do that.. > > 4) The Kill-a-W is plugged into a solatron 1 to 1 line regulating > transformer. > My Line regulating Solitron has the very desirable built in characteristic > that it goes into a saturation mode that limits the max output power if > overloaded > If not overloaded, it outputs a constant voltage. > > 5) Have a few resetable and/or standard fuses in there to be over safe. > > The proper use of the variact's output voltage has a learning curve, > because > equipment with switchers behave differently than things with linearly > supplies > > ws > > ***************** _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
MG
Marv Gozum @ JHN
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 6:23 PM

I recall a similar method in the past, it was great for linear
supplies.  An interesting development is that incandescent bulbs are
being phased out of the USA by 2014, locally I haven't seen one
installed in over 5 years.  In my household, I don't have any
anymore.  Since the price is on par with CFL, most everyone I know
are using them since 2005.  In Canada, you can't even find them in stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs

At 08:55 PM 10/10/2011, gbusg wrote:

I like your test method, Warren.

Regarding switch-mode power supply issues: Once or twice a year we had power
brown-outs in the neighborhood where I used to work. The lights would dim,
but power wouldn't necessarily cut-out completely right away. You could hear
various computers and pieces of equipment intermittently beeping or humming,
and relays clicking in some equipment. At that point we would manually
turn-off all equipment as quickly as possible!

After power returned to normal and we turned everything back on, there was
about a 50% chance one or more HP 8662A signal generators were smoked. The
problem was always the switch mode power supplies in them. Most HP equipment
seemed to survive the brown-out, but, based on those experiences, I would be
leery (if not downright afraid) to try running a 8662A on reduced AC primary
voltage.

-Greg

Best Wishes,

Marv Gozum
Philadelphia

I recall a similar method in the past, it was great for linear supplies. An interesting development is that incandescent bulbs are being phased out of the USA by 2014, locally I haven't seen one installed in over 5 years. In my household, I don't have any anymore. Since the price is on par with CFL, most everyone I know are using them since 2005. In Canada, you can't even find them in stores. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs At 08:55 PM 10/10/2011, gbusg wrote: >I like your test method, Warren. > >Regarding switch-mode power supply issues: Once or twice a year we had power >brown-outs in the neighborhood where I used to work. The lights would dim, >but power wouldn't necessarily cut-out completely right away. You could hear >various computers and pieces of equipment intermittently beeping or humming, >and relays clicking in some equipment. At that point we would manually >turn-off all equipment as quickly as possible! > >After power returned to normal and we turned everything back on, there was >about a 50% chance one or more HP 8662A signal generators were smoked. The >problem was always the switch mode power supplies in them. Most HP equipment >seemed to survive the brown-out, but, based on those experiences, I would be >leery (if not downright afraid) to try running a 8662A on reduced AC primary >voltage. > >-Greg Best Wishes, Marv Gozum Philadelphia
AJ
Andreas Jahn
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 8:27 PM

You will still find at least one bulb in your baking oven.

With best regards

Andreas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marv Gozum @ JHN" marvin.gozum@jefferson.edu
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: [volt-nuts] the end of light bulbs as we know it was Re: Safe
power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...)

I recall a similar method in the past, it was great for linear supplies.
An interesting development is that incandescent bulbs are being phased out
of the USA by 2014, locally I haven't seen one installed in over 5 years.
In my household, I don't have any anymore.  Since the price is on par with
CFL, most everyone I know are using them since 2005.  In Canada, you can't
even find them in stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs

You will still find at least one bulb in your baking oven. With best regards Andreas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marv Gozum @ JHN" <marvin.gozum@jefferson.edu> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:23 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] the end of light bulbs as we know it was Re: Safe power-up. was (Solartron 7075 ...) >I recall a similar method in the past, it was great for linear supplies. >An interesting development is that incandescent bulbs are being phased out >of the USA by 2014, locally I haven't seen one installed in over 5 years. >In my household, I don't have any anymore. Since the price is on par with >CFL, most everyone I know are using them since 2005. In Canada, you can't >even find them in stores. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs >
MG
Marv Gozum @ JHN
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 8:50 PM

You're right Andreas, now that you mention it, I forgot, I have 3
then, my microwave and refrigerator are all c1990 something.

At 04:27 PM 10/11/2011, Andreas Jahn wrote:

You will still find at least one bulb in your baking oven.

With best regards

Andreas

Best Wishes,

Marv Gozum
Philadelphia

You're right Andreas, now that you mention it, I forgot, I have 3 then, my microwave and refrigerator are all c1990 something. At 04:27 PM 10/11/2011, Andreas Jahn wrote: >You will still find at least one bulb in your baking oven. > >With best regards > >Andreas > Best Wishes, Marv Gozum Philadelphia