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Discussion of precise voltage measurement

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Wanted wirewound precision resistors and ESI DB877 help

FS
Frank Stellmach
Tue, Jun 19, 2012 6:57 AM

Hello.

The low ohm ww resistors can be orderes from:
http://www.rhopointcomponents.com/  - Resistors - Precision Through
hole. Series 8E16 and 8G16 are 0.1 and 0.01%, TC3, low long term drift.
Perhaps rhopoint also has a shop in italy. Delivery directly from UK was
OK, but I had to pay additional taxes, afair.

2MOhm is difficult and very expensive to realize in wirewound
technology, as wire has to be very long.

100µA give 20mW only, so they obviously have some internal problem,
perhaps from humidity and/or age.
Or the High Voltage (200V) has killed them, local short circuit and kind
of "hotspot", due to deteriorated isolation.

The distributor has other low TC technologies, perhaps the long term
drift is ok.

But your unit has obviously some other severe problems due to age or
environmental abuse.
I'd check all other resistors before investing any Cent.

Frank

Hello. The low ohm ww resistors can be orderes from: http://www.rhopointcomponents.com/ - Resistors - Precision Through hole. Series 8E16 and 8G16 are 0.1 and 0.01%, TC3, low long term drift. Perhaps rhopoint also has a shop in italy. Delivery directly from UK was OK, but I had to pay additional taxes, afair. 2MOhm is difficult and very expensive to realize in wirewound technology, as wire has to be very long. 100µA give 20mW only, so they obviously have some internal problem, perhaps from humidity and/or age. Or the High Voltage (200V) has killed them, local short circuit and kind of "hotspot", due to deteriorated isolation. The distributor has other low TC technologies, perhaps the long term drift is ok. But your unit has obviously some other severe problems due to age or environmental abuse. I'd check all other resistors before investing any Cent. Frank
FE
Fabio Eboli
Tue, Jun 19, 2012 9:11 AM

Frank Stellmach frank.stellmach@freenet.de ha scritto:

The low ohm ww resistors can be orderes from:
http://www.rhopointcomponents.com/  - Resistors - Precision Through
hole. Series 8E16 and 8G16 are 0.1 and 0.01%, TC3, low long term
drift.

Thank you for the tip, the prices seem reasonable.

2MOhm is difficult and very expensive to realize in wirewound
technology, as wire has to be very long.

Yes, this is the problem, I should have specified that the resistors
arent required to be necessarily wirewound, but the important is long
term stability, I have still original 1Meg and 2Meg and I can trim
the new resistors to the ones still alive, assuming these are still
ok. It seem so because the direct resistance measurement seem ok,
and measuring the current once connected to the fluke 343 source
returns perfect value, but now I fear to repeat the process.

100µA give 20mW only, so they obviously have some internal problem,
perhaps from humidity and/or age.
Or the High Voltage (200V) has killed them, local short circuit and
kind of "hotspot", due to deteriorated isolation.

I dont have experience with such kind of high precision high value
resistors, per ESI/TEGAM specs the 2Meg have maximum ratings
of 90mW 300uA 300V per resistor, so I was way below the maximum.
I opened one broken resistor ( they are open, with only a tape
on the outside) and the wire is oily, there was also somethin like
wax in some points on the outside. I think you are right that the
wire insulation is probably compromised.

But your unit has obviously some other severe problems due to age or
environmental abuse.
I'd check all other resistors before investing any Cent.

Can you advice a tecnique to check the other resistors?
I disassembled the selectors and measured every single resistor,
there are a pair of resistors that seem a little drifted toward lower
than spec value, these are the same that seem a little overheated.

Am I correct in thinking that, if there are corrosion problems,
probably the problem will be in the 100/200k and 1/2Meg?
These are long thin wire around a small ceramic former.
The other resistors are wound around a mica sheet and the wire
is all on the outside surface, so can be easily cleaned and checked
visually with microscope.

There was also an hint that something was wrong with the high value decade
before the disaster.
I measured the single 2meg resistors and after I measured the series,
the resistance of total series was slightly lower
that the sum of the single units, so for example 10Meg mesured 7-8kohm
low while the sum of single 2Meg resistor was low by 3-400ohms each.
I tought this was due to leackage on the selector switch (it's ceramic).

Fabio.


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Frank Stellmach <frank.stellmach@freenet.de> ha scritto: > The low ohm ww resistors can be orderes from: > http://www.rhopointcomponents.com/ - Resistors - Precision Through > hole. Series 8E16 and 8G16 are 0.1 and 0.01%, TC3, low long term > drift. Thank you for the tip, the prices seem reasonable. > 2MOhm is difficult and very expensive to realize in wirewound > technology, as wire has to be very long. Yes, this is the problem, I should have specified that the resistors arent required to be necessarily wirewound, but the important is long term stability, I have still original 1Meg and 2Meg and I can trim the new resistors to the ones still alive, assuming these are still ok. It seem so because the direct resistance measurement seem ok, and measuring the current once connected to the fluke 343 source returns perfect value, but now I fear to repeat the process. > > 100µA give 20mW only, so they obviously have some internal problem, > perhaps from humidity and/or age. > Or the High Voltage (200V) has killed them, local short circuit and > kind of "hotspot", due to deteriorated isolation. I dont have experience with such kind of high precision high value resistors, per ESI/TEGAM specs the 2Meg have maximum ratings of 90mW 300uA 300V per resistor, so I was way below the maximum. I opened one broken resistor ( they are open, with only a tape on the outside) and the wire is oily, there was also somethin like wax in some points on the outside. I think you are right that the wire insulation is probably compromised. > But your unit has obviously some other severe problems due to age or > environmental abuse. > I'd check all other resistors before investing any Cent. Can you advice a tecnique to check the other resistors? I disassembled the selectors and measured every single resistor, there are a pair of resistors that seem a little drifted toward lower than spec value, these are the same that seem a little overheated. Am I correct in thinking that, if there are corrosion problems, probably the problem will be in the 100/200k and 1/2Meg? These are long thin wire around a small ceramic former. The other resistors are wound around a mica sheet and the wire is all on the outside surface, so can be easily cleaned and checked visually with microscope. There was also an hint that something was wrong with the high value decade before the disaster. I measured the single 2meg resistors and after I measured the series, the resistance of total series was slightly lower that the sum of the single units, so for example 10Meg mesured 7-8kohm low while the sum of single 2Meg resistor was low by 3-400ohms each. I tought this was due to leackage on the selector switch (it's ceramic). Fabio. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
DC
David C. Partridge
Tue, Jun 19, 2012 12:48 PM

If you aren't committed to wire-wound, look at metal foil resistors.

Dave

If you aren't committed to wire-wound, look at metal foil resistors. Dave
A
Artekmedia
Tue, Jun 19, 2012 1:11 PM

Another added advantage of metal foil looking at a few data sheets just
now is that apparently the temperature coefficient of metal foil  is on
the order of .2ppm/C vs 20 to 100PPM/C for most wire wound.. I see that
Vishay offers .005% precision metal foil with a TC of .3PPM/C...I'm sure
there a few others

Dave ( #2)

On 6/19/2012 7:48 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:

If you aren't committed to wire-wound, look at metal foil resistors.

Dave


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Dave&  Lynn Henderson
Manuals@ArtekMedia.com
www.Artekmedia.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089

Another added advantage of metal foil looking at a few data sheets just now is that apparently the temperature coefficient of metal foil is on the order of .2ppm/C vs 20 to 100PPM/C for most wire wound.. I see that Vishay offers .005% precision metal foil with a TC of .3PPM/C...I'm sure there a few others Dave ( #2) On 6/19/2012 7:48 AM, David C. Partridge wrote: > If you aren't committed to wire-wound, look at metal foil resistors. > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Dave& Lynn Henderson Manuals@ArtekMedia.com www.Artekmedia.com PO Box 175 Welch,MN 55089