Re: [PUP] Motor+sailer vs Motor-or-Sailer
Scott:
(a) That was my posting, not Kevin's - I'll take the heat.
(b) My sense of this forum is that you target passagemaking under power and available passagemakers and NOT yacht design for passagemaking, therefore take design issues the a more appropriate place, e.g boatdesign.net
(c) When topics come up that might influence those considering a custom approach or making false broad generalizations, I will occasionally chime in with a reply that is intended only to frame a topic in a different light (e.g. " I charted a FP40 therefore all cats and all sailboats suck", or "many motorsailers in the past had undersized props, so motorsailers are a bad idea").
(d) I'm genetically wired to always challenge the convention wisdom, since it's more often convention than wisdom. My apologies to the group.
----- Original Message ----
From: Scott E. Bulger scottebulger@comcast.net
To: Passagemaking Under Power List passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 4:16:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Motor+sailer vs Motor-or-Sailer
Kevin said: I think a key shift in philosophy is one represented by Paine's
SteadySailer which has the design goal to maintain 10 knots through the
combination of wind AND diesel power
Scott retorts: This posting is an example of exactly what has gone wrong in
the last few days. Because we have opened the door to the discussion on
Sail we are loosing focus on the content of this forum. It's no surprise to
me that sailors are discovering adding power makes sense. This is not a
Adding Power to Sail forum. We don't use our props to generate power when
there is lots of wind. There are innumerable forums for sailors to debate
these topics.
Please, we need to return to the focus of this list, Beebe realized the
sails on his boat were worthless after building and voyaging Passagemaker,
to quote:
Voyaging Under Power, Third Edition Lessons Learned, page 34, Sailing Rig.
This feature is hard to justify by the facts of our cruising. It is not a
good emergency propulsion system for this reason: If the engine should
fail, sail would get you somewhere, but the chances of its being where you
wanted to go are pretty slim. consequently, your cruise would be pretty
well ruined, while an alternative power system would allow the cruise to
continue. In addition, an efficient sailing rig is expensive-more so than
another diesel engine.
Please, if there is sufficient interest in establishing a multi-hull power
assisted sailing forum, then someone should approach Georgs and see if he's
interested in hosting one. For the Passagemaking Under Power forum, we
propel the boats with diesel engines (or hybrid diesel electric). The
primary propulsion is not sail with the motor ticking over.
Scott Bulger, PUP List admin
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions, formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
To be removed from the PUP list send an email with the
subject "unsubscribe" (no quotes) to the link below:
mailto:passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
My take on this forum from the inception was purely...Passagemaking UNDER
POWER...no sails period. Not PUPas (and sailing). As such we need a boat
with enough fuel to cross oceans, an engine (or two) reliable enough to
cross oceans, and a hull/structure strong enough to cross oceans. Seems like
"crossing oceans" is a big player here. To semi/paraphrase our administator
"sails suck", they are romantic as only a sailing boat can be but they are
not my cup o' tea. A rumbling diesel is my wind, I can feel it and smell it
and hear it, and know it's needs from that.
From: Mark mark424x@yahoo.com
Reply-To: Passagemaking Under Power
Listpassagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
To: scottebulger@comcast.net, Passagemaking Under Power
Listpassagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PUP] Motor+sailer vs Motor-or-Sailer
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
Scott:
(a) That was my posting, not Kevin's - I'll take the heat.
(b) My sense of this forum is that you target passagemaking under power and
available passagemakers and NOT yacht design for passagemaking, therefore
take design issues the a more appropriate place, e.g boatdesign.net
(c) When topics come up that might influence those considering a custom
approach or making false broad generalizations, I will occasionally chime in
with a reply that is intended only to frame a topic in a different light
(e.g. " I charted a FP40 therefore all cats and all sailboats suck", or
"many motorsailers in the past had undersized props, so motorsailers are a
bad idea").
(d) I'm genetically wired to always challenge the convention wisdom, since
it's more often convention than wisdom. My apologies to the group.
----- Original Message ----
From: Scott E. Bulger scottebulger@comcast.net
To: Passagemaking Under Power List
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 4:16:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PUP] Motor+sailer vs Motor-or-Sailer
Kevin said: I think a key shift in philosophy is one represented by Paine's
SteadySailer which has the design goal to maintain 10 knots through the
combination of wind AND diesel power
Scott retorts: This posting is an example of exactly what has gone wrong in
the last few days. Because we have opened the door to the discussion on
Sail we are loosing focus on the content of this forum. It's no surprise to
me that sailors are discovering adding power makes sense. This is not a
Adding Power to Sail forum. We don't use our props to generate power when
there is lots of wind. There are innumerable forums for sailors to debate
these topics.
Please, we need to return to the focus of this list, Beebe realized the
sails on his boat were worthless after building and voyaging Passagemaker,
to quote:
Voyaging Under Power, Third Edition Lessons Learned, page 34, Sailing Rig.
This feature is hard to justify by the facts of our cruising. It is not a
good emergency propulsion system for this reason: If the engine should
fail, sail would get you somewhere, but the chances of its being where you
wanted to go are pretty slim. consequently, your cruise would be pretty
well ruined, while an alternative power system would allow the cruise to
continue. In addition, an efficient sailing rig is expensive-more so than
another diesel engine.
Please, if there is sufficient interest in establishing a multi-hull power
assisted sailing forum, then someone should approach Georgs and see if he's
interested in hosting one. For the Passagemaking Under Power forum, we
propel the boats with diesel engines (or hybrid diesel electric). The
primary propulsion is not sail with the motor ticking over.
Scott Bulger, PUP List admin
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
To be removed from the PUP list send an email with the
subject "unsubscribe" (no quotes) to the link below:
mailto:passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
Passagemaking Under Power and PUP are trademarks of Water World Productions,
formerly known as Trawler World Productions.
To be removed from the PUP list send an email with the
subject "unsubscribe" (no quotes) to the link below:
mailto:passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List
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