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Passagemaking Under Power List

Re: Swimsteps

Bob Austin

Thu, Jan 13, 2005 10:04 PM

John writes:

Are you designing your own passagemaker based on books? There's much questionable information being bandied about by folks who don't seem to have the credentials to do so. Whether designing a new vessel or modifying an already-proven design, I'd hire a NA, not some guy who writes books. If someone posts, "I wanted this and here's what my architect came up with," that's good info. Apologies in advance to any NAs on the list who have not uncloaked......By the way, be
sure your architect really is a degreed and licensed architect, and not just a "designer."

There are lots of very good boats designed and built by designers who are not naval architects. Michael Kasten, and George Buhler are not naval architects--so should we discard all of their designs and boats? Bill Lee is not a naval architict, nor was George Olsen or Ron Moore--yet these people designed and built some of the best boats of the last few decades.

The modifications to my Cal 46 were designed by a yacht designer. I would put his boats up against any in the world for handling and seaworthyness. The work was done by an Austrialian shipwright who spend 6 years in a college and apprenticeship program--and is world class in his worksmanship.

I certainly would not advocate that anyone without experience or boating knowlege design and build a boat. On the other hand there are a number of very accomplished yacht designers and boat builders who are not naval architects nor who employ naval architects.

If I was having a large boat built, I certainly would want it to be designed and supervised by a naval architect. If I am not mistaken Mike is an excellent engineer and fully capable of assessing what the design permaters are of a boat his size. It is by asking questions and looking at other's designs that we come to an "ideal" boat for each of us.

Bob Austin

John writes: Are you designing your own passagemaker based on books? There's much questionable information being bandied about by folks who don't seem to have the credentials to do so. Whether designing a new vessel or modifying an already-proven design, I'd hire a NA, not some guy who writes books. If someone posts, "I wanted this and here's what my architect came up with," that's good info. Apologies in advance to any NAs on the list who have not uncloaked......By the way, be sure your architect really is a degreed and licensed architect, and not just a "designer." There are lots of very good boats designed and built by designers who are not naval architects. Michael Kasten, and George Buhler are not naval architects--so should we discard all of their designs and boats? Bill Lee is not a naval architict, nor was George Olsen or Ron Moore--yet these people designed and built some of the best boats of the last few decades. The modifications to my Cal 46 were designed by a yacht designer. I would put his boats up against any in the world for handling and seaworthyness. The work was done by an Austrialian shipwright who spend 6 years in a college and apprenticeship program--and is world class in his worksmanship. I certainly would not advocate that anyone without experience or boating knowlege design and build a boat. On the other hand there are a number of very accomplished yacht designers and boat builders who are not naval architects nor who employ naval architects. If I was having a large boat built, I certainly would want it to be designed and supervised by a naval architect. If I am not mistaken Mike is an excellent engineer and fully capable of assessing what the design permaters are of a boat his size. It is by asking questions and looking at other's designs that we come to an "ideal" boat for each of us. Bob Austin

Ron Rogers

Fri, Jan 14, 2005 3:26 AM

A recent new entry into the trawler market is a lengthened CHB hull. There are also a decent number of Taiwan hulls with no design attribution. I guess you go with a proven hull and/or a proven designer. One of our list members building his second boat has designed it himself. He knows that the 24 foot version works and should have reason that his much larger boat will also work. So, as Bob said, some people have the talent. As an example of the opposite, I evaluated a Vista 43 which no designer claimed. It was a turkey with significant fuel consumption. I would think that fuel consumption and comfort underway would be good indicies of designer competence.

Ron Rogers
Willard 40 of mildly confused design ancestry.

It is surprising how many boat are N.A. "X's" design lengthened or shortened "by us." That makes me mildly nervous - is it that obvious how to do that? There are some well known boats that are length and beam variants on a famous N.A.'s design. I guess that the proof is in the handling, but I would not wish to be the guinea pig first owner. A recent new entry into the trawler market is a lengthened CHB hull. There are also a decent number of Taiwan hulls with no design attribution. I guess you go with a proven hull and/or a proven designer. One of our list members building his second boat has designed it himself. He knows that the 24 foot version works and should have reason that his much larger boat will also work. So, as Bob said, some people have the talent. As an example of the opposite, I evaluated a Vista 43 which no designer claimed. It was a turkey with significant fuel consumption. I would think that fuel consumption and comfort underway would be good indicies of designer competence. Ron Rogers Willard 40 of mildly confused design ancestry.