Cruising America's Great Loop and other inland routes
View all threadsI will agree that a catamaran is a great option for looping and is what we choose.
But you are overselling it. People shouldn't expect a calm quite ride in 8-10 footers. It probably was a smoother ride but they aren't magic.
More importantly, there is no need to be out in 8-10 footers while looping. There is plenty of good weather resources so you should be able to sit tight and wait for better weather.
To the general discussion, I would recommend the smallest boat you can be comfortable on. While 5' is definitely doable, I would suggest trying to get under 3' is possible. It's nice being able to anchor where others can't and we've even gotten into a few marinas that were "full" because they had slips that most boats couldn't use.
Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 10:58:24 -0500
From: "Bob Levine" bob@levinegroup.com
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: GL: Sandpiper
Message-ID: 001c01cebebf$0fed8b60$2fc8a220$@levinegroup.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When we started the loop in 2006 a decision had to be made as to the type of
boat that would be needed. We were keenly aware of the possibilities of bad
seas. Are we going to purchase a boat with or without stabilizer's. That is
a cost that could be quite expensive. Do we want a monohull or a catamaran?
We ended up choosing a Catamaran. Sandpiper we built in 2005 in the United
States, I can tell you that was the best decision we made as Looper. We had
10 foot rolls in Lake Michigan. We faced 8 foot seas cutting across from
Apalachicola to Steamhatchie. In that instance we had a 55 foot Carver
following us, while doing the crossing he called us on the radio to ask if
we were stabilized, I replied no and asked him why the inquiry. He stated
that he was wallowing like a cork in a bath tub and we were riding the waves
with very little movement. This experience taught us that we made the
correct decision. Out boat at 8 knots burns 3 gallons per hour for both
engines. We filled up in Burlington Vermont and then brought on fuel in
St.Ignace Michigan. So there is great fuel economy in a cat. I would
strongly urge anyone who is considering doing the loop to definitely
consider the benefits of a Cat over a Monohull
Should you have any questions you can either write me or call.
Bob Levine (615) 394-3750
Sandpiper 44' Power Catamaran.
Mike and Tammy,
I do like catamarans, both power and sail. However, you did not mention how many marinas can not accommodate the extra beam of such wide boats. The only place in our marina would be at a T-head -- not protected from river traffic.
John
=====================
On Oct 2, 2013, at 6:59 AM, M S wrote:
I will agree that a catamaran is a great option for looping and is what we choose.
But you are overselling it. People shouldn't expect a calm quite ride in 8-10 footers. It probably was a smoother ride but they aren't magic.
More importantly, there is no need to be out in 8-10 footers while looping. There is plenty of good weather resources so you should be able to sit tight and wait for better weather.
To the general discussion, I would recommend the smallest boat you can be comfortable on. While 5' is definitely doable, I would suggest trying to get under 3' is possible. It's nice being able to anchor where others can't and we've even gotten into a few marinas that were "full" because they had slips that most boats couldn't use.
Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 10:58:24 -0500
From: "Bob Levine" bob@levinegroup.com
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: GL: Sandpiper
Message-ID: 001c01cebebf$0fed8b60$2fc8a220$@levinegroup.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When we started the loop in 2006 a decision had to be made as to the type of
boat that would be needed. We were keenly aware of the possibilities of bad
seas. Are we going to purchase a boat with or without stabilizer's. That is
a cost that could be quite expensive. Do we want a monohull or a catamaran?
We ended up choosing a Catamaran. Sandpiper we built in 2005 in the United
States, I can tell you that was the best decision we made as Looper. We had
10 foot rolls in Lake Michigan. We faced 8 foot seas cutting across from
Apalachicola to Steamhatchie. In that instance we had a 55 foot Carver
following us, while doing the crossing he called us on the radio to ask if
we were stabilized, I replied no and asked him why the inquiry. He stated
that he was wallowing like a cork in a bath tub and we were riding the waves
with very little movement. This experience taught us that we made the
correct decision. Out boat at 8 knots burns 3 gallons per hour for both
engines. We filled up in Burlington Vermont and then brought on fuel in
St.Ignace Michigan. So there is great fuel economy in a cat. I would
strongly urge anyone who is considering doing the loop to definitely
consider the benefits of a Cat over a Monohull
Should you have any questions you can either write me or call.
Bob Levine (615) 394-3750
Sandpiper 44' Power Catamaran.
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
I looked very hard at catamarans for all the normal stated reasons, however
found some "draw backs" that made me go a different direction.
Several issues that gave me concern were, wide beam restrictions for
docking, haul outs, access to systems. sensitivity to loading having a
negative effect on performance, (ok I could have gone on a diet), smaller
tanks then I wanted, exposed props and shafts(some) and sea state handling
issue for some smaller cats. All my perceived shortcomings were more
prevalent on some brands than others. The Cats that I had a chance to run
exhibited an uncomfortable snap roll on beam steep seas, and bridge slap in
tight steep head seas particularly when heavily ladened (diet issue again).
They handle great and have great open space in the salon and bridge.
Some of the short comings I witnessed were on early power cats adopted
from sailing cats. Later designs increased the reserve buoyancy in the
bows of the amas in meeting head seas and increased ease of access to
systems and engines. All boats have assets and compromises but that
doesn't make them bad boats. Ultimately if a boat meets your cruising
needs and style withing your budget it is a great boat.
Joe
"Carolyn Ann" GH N-37
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 3:35 PM, John & Judy Gill jjgill@twojscom.comwrote:
Mike and Tammy,
I do like catamarans, both power and sail. However, you did not mention
how many marinas can not accommodate the extra beam of such wide boats.
The only place in our marina would be at a T-head -- not protected from
river traffic.
John
=====================
On Oct 2, 2013, at 6:59 AM, M S wrote:
I will agree that a catamaran is a great option for looping and is what
we choose.
But you are overselling it. People shouldn't expect a calm quite ride in
8-10 footers. It probably was a smoother ride but they aren't magic.
More importantly, there is no need to be out in 8-10 footers while
looping. There is plenty of good weather resources so you should be able to
sit tight and wait for better weather.
To the general discussion, I would recommend the smallest boat you can
be comfortable on. While 5' is definitely doable, I would suggest trying to
get under 3' is possible. It's nice being able to anchor where others can't
and we've even gotten into a few marinas that were "full" because they had
slips that most boats couldn't use.
Mike & Tammy
Valhalla II
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 10:58:24 -0500
From: "Bob Levine" bob@levinegroup.com
To: great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Subject: GL: Sandpiper
Message-ID: 001c01cebebf$0fed8b60$2fc8a220$@levinegroup.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When we started the loop in 2006 a decision had to be made as to the
type of
boat that would be needed. We were keenly aware of the possibilities of
bad
seas. Are we going to purchase a boat with or without stabilizer's. That
is
a cost that could be quite expensive. Do we want a monohull or a
catamaran?
We ended up choosing a Catamaran. Sandpiper we built in 2005 in the
United
States, I can tell you that was the best decision we made as Looper. We
had
10 foot rolls in Lake Michigan. We faced 8 foot seas cutting across from
Apalachicola to Steamhatchie. In that instance we had a 55 foot Carver
following us, while doing the crossing he called us on the radio to ask
if
we were stabilized, I replied no and asked him why the inquiry. He stated
that he was wallowing like a cork in a bath tub and we were riding the
waves
with very little movement. This experience taught us that we made the
correct decision. Out boat at 8 knots burns 3 gallons per hour for both
engines. We filled up in Burlington Vermont and then brought on fuel in
St.Ignace Michigan. So there is great fuel economy in a cat. I would
strongly urge anyone who is considering doing the loop to definitely
consider the benefits of a Cat over a Monohull
Should you have any questions you can either write me or call.
Bob Levine (615) 394-3750
Sandpiper 44' Power Catamaran.
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to:
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
--
Joe Pica
Carolyn Ann GH N-37
MTOA #3813, AGLCA #5485
http://carolynann-n37.blogspot.com/
All boats are trade offs.
With our Gemini, we are only 14' wide so we fit in a standard slip.
Systems are simple and easily accessable.
Bumping bottom isn't a big concern as rudders and outboard will kick up (never had the outboard hit though.
Load her down and she will lose some performance but that drops her back to what a monohull of similar length and power would have.
Beam seas are annoying but easily addressed by angling into or away from them a little.
For looping, huge tankage isn't that big an issue. You are never far from a place to top up.
Probably the biggest issue compared to trawlers is she tops out a 7kts and likes to cruise around 6kts. Of course that is balanced with around twice the fuel effiecency of a similarly sized trawler.
From: Joseph Pica joseph.pica@gmail.com
To: John & Judy Gill jjgill@twojscom.com
Cc: M S valhalla360@yahoo.com; "Loop List Great, Loop List" great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: GL: sandpiper - catamaran on loop
I looked very hard at catamarans for all the normal stated reasons, however found some "draw backs" that made me go a different direction.
Several issues that gave me concern were, wide beam restrictions for docking, haul outs, access to systems. sensitivity to loading having a negative effect on performance, (ok I could have gone on a diet), smaller tanks then I wanted, exposed props and shafts(some) and sea state handling issue for some smaller cats. All my perceived shortcomings were more prevalent on some brands than others. The Cats that I had a chance to run exhibited an uncomfortable snap roll on beam steep seas, and bridge slap in tight steep head seas particularly when heavily ladened (diet issue again). They handle great and have great open space in the salon and bridge. Some of the short comings I witnessed were on early power cats adopted from sailing cats. Later designs increased the reserve buoyancy in the bows of the amas in meeting head seas and increased ease of access to systems and engines. All boats have assets and compromises but that doesn't make them
bad boats. Ultimately if a boat meets your cruising needs and style withing your budget it is a great boat.
Joe
"Carolyn Ann" GH N-37
At a 14' beam, we've not come across a marina that would be an issue.
Even at 16' beam, most marinas could handle a cat with no problem.
Now when you get up into the 18'+ range, yes, you are looking at t-heads. We have found t-heads are generally just as well protected as a few slips in from the end.
From: John & Judy Gill jjgill@twojscom.com
To: M S valhalla360@yahoo.com; "Loop List Great, Loop List" great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: GL: sandpiper - catamaran on loop
Mike and Tammy,
I do like catamarans, both power and sail. However, you did not mention how many marinas can not accommodate the extra beam of such wide boats. The only place in our marina would be at a T-head -- not protected from river traffic.
John
We cruise on a PDQ 34 catamaran with a 17' beam and have only had two marinas in a 5500 mile trip from Florida to Canada and back where our beam was an issue. One simply didn't have slips wide enough and had no T-heads, another wanted to charge us 1.5 times the going rate - we went elsewhere. We love our PDQ!
Paige Caldwell
Email: mpongolden@gmail.com
On Oct 2, 2013, at 7:27 PM, M S valhalla360@yahoo.com wrote:
At a 14' beam, we've not come across a marina that would be an issue.
Even at 16' beam, most marinas could handle a cat with no problem.
Now when you get up into the 18'+ range, yes, you are looking at t-heads. We have found t-heads are generally just as well protected as a few slips in from the end.
From: John & Judy Gill jjgill@twojscom.com
To: M S valhalla360@yahoo.com; "Loop List Great, Loop List" great-loop@lists.trawlering.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: GL: sandpiper - catamaran on loop
Mike and Tammy,
I do like catamarans, both power and sail. However, you did not mention how many marinas can not accommodate the extra beam of such wide boats. The only place in our marina would be at a T-head -- not protected from river traffic.
John
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
We have an EndeavourCat 48, which has an 18' beam. We have never had a problem finding a slip (the boat fits comfortably into a standard 50' slip). Our problem has been convincing marinas that we will fit - we have found ourselves on the "megadock" or in super yacht slips of 100' and more and had to plead to be allowed into the smaller slips - "but you are a catamaran, your beam is too wide". No it's not! General looks of amazement when we slip right on in, just as we know we can.
Love the cat, only regret is not having enough time to spend on board.
Jo Stanton
"Jonah's Whale"
On Oct 2, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Paige Caldwell mpongolden@gmail.com wrote:
We cruise on a PDQ 34 catamaran with a 17' beam and have only had two marinas in a 5500 mile trip from Florida to Canada and back where our beam was an issue. One simply didn't have slips wide enough and had no T-heads, another wanted to charge us 1.5 times the going rate - we went elsewhere. We love our PDQ!
Paige Caldwell
Email: mpongolden@gmail.com
On Oct 2, 2013, at 7:27 PM, M S valhalla360@yahoo.com wrote: