I don't see how you can critique a yacht like this from pictures accurately, this effort looks very good to me from the pictures and is built by a very experienced yard with proper certifications. I don't think I would worry about crumbs an spilled milk on the countertops, it wont be rocking and rolling very much. Interior fit and finish is in the eyes of the beholder on a custom effort and I don't think you can generalize about that. I have just as many clients that would prefer this interior over the Gucci ones. Most pilothouse windows are not designed to open and close since they are built out of heavy laminated glass, are meant to be watertight, and have windshield wipers forward, usually hatches provide the air. As someone who has built a few boats, and just finished a custom aluminum 50 ft. sailing cat for a client, I am impressed with what I can see from the photos. The only thing that might affect my point of view is what it cost. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rod Gibbons<mailto:rodgibbons@mindspring.com> To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com<mailto:power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 5:09 AM Subject: [PCW] Musings on an 80-plus-foot power cat. Disclaimer -- this post written by a catamaran dealer I was intrigued -- as perhaps many of you were -- by recent mention of the 80-plus foot power cat noted by Jonah Jones, in Message #4, posted Friday, July 16. "We parked close to this catamaran when we were at Treasure Cay recently. You could have a game of water polo between the hulls. http://www.aftheriault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm<http://www.afthe riault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm> " I'm guessing that that large cat's owner paid at least a few million dollars (and probably more) to make that cat a reality. At first (and 2nd) glance, it appears to be a high-quality degree of construction. Of course, it's frequently difficult to get a true sense of a boat's quality-and-construction from photos, but it certainly seems that great care was put into many aspects of this vessel. The interior wood work looks quite good -- the engine rooms seem to be especially well equipped, well lighted, the wiring neatly run-and-tied, and with many of the features that one wants to have easy access to designed to meet just that requirement. Similarly, the exterior walkways look adequate and protected. And it appeared that quality handrails were used plentifully and with good height-and-strength about the exterior of the vessel. And yet . . . there are some design features that inevitably would have my clients telling me, "Sorry....but that's a deal-breaker right there!" It may be of help to others still contemplating the construction of their own 40'... or 60'....or 80' cat if I were to mention a few of the things a cat dealer notes about this cat. -- First off, there are the windows. Again, photos can provide misleading perspectives so I may be in error here, but . . . as I looked at each photo, it appears that very few of the windows are low enough so that someone seated inside can view out of them. Time and again my clients tell me they find this unacceptable in a vessel, and an immediate "deal-breaker." -- It's not readily apparent that many (most?) of the windows can be opened. Again, while at anchor or dockside, a lot of buyers with boating experience want a boat that allows them to turn off the air conditioning, and enjoy "real air" wafting through their vessel. And if, in fact, this cat DOES sport opening ports, "good on ya, mate!" -- Seating: This is another design element about which I receive continual feedback from clients (again, especially those with boating experience). Oddly, this seems to be a frequently overlooked design consideration. First off, the U-shaped dining area (unless that's a crews' dining table), seems awfully snug, and certainly lacking in any type of individual seating adjustment. For years, I've learned from my clients that the closer a boat designer/builder can get to matching the ergonomics that home builders-and-decorators have worked out over scores of years for home interiors, the more satisfied you'll be when traveling or living aboard the vessel. For example, do ANY of us have a comfortable home in which a dining banquet (fixed settee and fixed table), was the dining design we chose for greatest comfort when eating? Not in my experience -- no more so than if an automobile's front seats were completely rigid and unadjustable. There's just no way that seating height, seat-back angle, or distance-from-the-table can be "right" for both someone who's 5'2" and 100 pounds, and someone else who's 6'5" and 220 lbs. That's why the better/more-comfortable dining experience will include a free-standing dining table, with separate chairs. Yes, yes, I know; one wants something that's usable in a seaway, too. But there are plenty of inventive (and established) means of keeping individual chairs steady, and non-sliding, even in a fairly boisterous sea. And, frankly, the table-with-chairs design has become standard on most cats -- even sailing models -- as "small" as 60' long. Thus, to see this rigid, closed-in, non-adjustable dining situation aboard an 80-plus foot cat is .... a surprise. (Because I've already ranted about windows, I won't linger about the seeming absence of good visibility from that fixed settee/table -- perhaps it is okay in actuality...but it doesn't look like it would be. In fact, it looks as though possibly only the sliding "screens" along the right side will, when slid back, provide a view outside of the yacht to a few of the diners.) This same seating discomfort looks built-in in the helm station, too. I'm a big fan of a modest-size table (seating for 2-to-4) in the pilot house of any power cat over about 55' or 60'. It allows the skipper to keep an eye out, while cruising on autopilot, yet still able to enjoy the company of the mate and/or a few guests. But someone should just plain BAN upright, 90-degree settee seatbacks. They're torture to most any adult's back within as little as 20 minutes (unless you're perpetually resting your elbows on the table). Again, ALL ergonomics as they relate to interior living comfort (height of counter tops, tables and window sills -- the optimum angle for dining-seating vs. lounging-seating -- maximum height of TV [or computer] screens above/below the seated person's eye height)....ALL of these calculations have been worked out years ago. It takes all of about 30 minutes for a designer (or owner) to access these various calculations from the internet. Similarly, a seat that is too shallow (under the thighs), will soon, and repeatedly, give the person seated a feeling of "slipping" off the seat . . . and this settee seat looks very shallow. In the interest of fair disclosure, I'll admit that even leading cat brands that I've represented for 10 to 15 years CONTINUE to build boats that, as soon as I step aboard a new model, I'm left wondering if the design group behind this latest model has EVER either (a) gone to sea in one of their designs, or (b) EVER read a simple book about the optimum parameters for human comfort in an interior living space? And it's not that by ignoring these ergonomic realities that the companies save money...often, doing it the 'right way' wouldn't cost a penny more. Moving on . . . If you have an 80-foot yacht, WHERE are the individual, super-comfortable chairs...and foot-rests? A lone sofa -- L-shaped or otherwise -- is NOT the optimum seating answer for all non-dining experiences (i.e., reading, conversing, resting, viewing TV, attacking a crossword puzzle, reading an engrossing book, and so on. And again, it appears that the windows surrounding that sofa are higher than the sight-line of someone sitting on that sofa. Next . . . .Given the wonders that can be accomplished with various counter-tops these days -- whether Corian, quartz, granite, pseudo-stone, or whatever -- there is NO excuse (aboard a boat) for said counter NOT having at least SOME bit of a lip (fiddle) along its edge so that if there's a bit of liquid on said counter, it doesnt' inevitably go pouring onto the cabin sole. Even in the calmest of harbors, a small motorized skiff need only pass close by for SOME amount of movement to occur (yes, even aboard a large cat), and any fluid on that counter-top will find itself pouring off that counter-top. In a seaway? It's inevitable. (Curiously, while the very spacious galley countertop seems to sport no fiddles, both the small table in the pilot house and the counter-top aft, around the cockpit sink, DO appear to have fiddles. To get even more picky, the fiddle on the table in the pilot house has no cut out, so it can be difficult to get damp crumbs off the table top. Conversely, there ARE cut-outs in the fiddle atop that cockpit counter top, thus making the matter of swiping the surface clean of crumbs and such the easies to do. A plus for this 80-footer is that it appears to do a VERY good job of including handrails all around the edges of the galley counters. Bravo! That is something that is almost always lacking in the production-built cats with which I'm familiar. But why, then, wasn't equal attention paid to providing similar hand-rails within the perimeter of the shower....where one will, at times, be even more vulnerable to being thrown about. (You can't look out windows as in a galley and see oncoming rollers-- and if you're washing your hair while underway, and have your eyes shut, you are REALLY vulnerable to ANY motion that the boat suddenly makes.) Similarly, there appear to be an absence of handholds around critical areas (seating...along the overheads...etc.), that a go-anywhere 80-footer (which this certainly seems to be), would benefit from having installed. Because you have more motion up on the second level, I'd especially like to see more (any?) handholds in the pilot house. Moving across that large, open area in a seaway could throw you quite a distance. Fro that reason, I like overhead rails (although, such rails can be problematic for short crew members. So, 1 or 2 floor-to-ceiling poles -- or at least handls/rails along a few bulkheads -- is desirable. Exterior Design -- Given that this cat was probably custom-built for the owner, we can assume it represents a look that he desired. And frankly, there is a market for this type of chunky-looking, "expedition-type" yacht design. (Nordhavn's enjoyed years of success with its "chunky, trawler/expedition-type" look.) But, from the viewpoint of strictly "greatest resale value," a sleeker design (although not necessarily flat-out, "Italian-chic") is apt to resell faster, because it will appeal to a larger group of buyers. A larger objection -- despite the apparent high-quality of the interior fit-out -- is that the all-wood interior is likely to be off-putting to many prospective buyers. People, for example, almost never seek that in a home -- and especially, not the same wood, throughout, for ALL walls (builkheads), doors, window frames, etc. Typically, the larger the yacht, the more often its interior will be a combination of wood, fabrics, and other textured surfaces. (Check out any boating magazine that features yachts in the 60' to 100' range.) Again, I'm not harping on a personal preference -- but rather, passing along what years of clients have educated me to. Of course, as with the exterior design, if this near-all-wood interior is what the original owner wanted, then he got the specific yacht he desired....and thus was probably highly pleased with that choice. If so, bravo to him for that. But if YOU are currently considering the interior design options for a power cat you're hoping to have built -- and if resale value is important to you -- I recommend not selecting an all-wood interior. A LOT of compromises must be accepted in trying to create a 35' cruising-power-cat....fewer in a 60-footer....and by the time you move beyond 75 feet, one hopes that a whole slew of beneficial-and-proven design features (some enhancing safety, ALL increasing ergonomic comfort) would be standard in a big-cat's design. Rod Gibbons Cruising Cats USA Seattle - San Francisco Bay - Hawaii > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:38:11 -0300 > From: Jonah Jones <jonah@northrock.bm<mailto:jonah@northrock.bm>> > To: Power Catamaran List <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com<mailto:power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com>> > Subject: [PCW] abacos > Message-ID: <ED13B604-4C97-42AA-B17E-6585109F11E7@northrock.bm<mailto:ED13B604-4C97-42AA- B17E-6585109F11E7@northrock.bm>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > parked close to this catamaran when we were at Treasure Cay recently. you > could have a game of water polo between the hulls. > http://www.aftheriault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm<http://www.aftheri ault.com/en/boats/fiber_int/hayfu_ii.htm> > > Jonah. > > www.jonah-art.com<http://www.jonah-art.com/> > www.jonahs-whale.com<http://www.jonahs-whale.com/> _______________________________________________ Power-Catamaran Mailing List