talk@lists.collectionspace.org
WE HAVE SUNSET THIS LISTSERV - Join us at collectionspace@lyrasislists.org
View all threadsPreferred and Non-Preferred concept terms
Hello,
This is a kind of complicated question so I'm going to talk it out and would welcome any thoughts.
When a concept term is created in the Concept Authority (or any authority) you have the option to repeat the term group and add additional non-preferred term group data. It is the selection of the preferred term using the radial dial that is what is important for searching. Regardless of using a non-preferred term in a search, it is the preferred term that will come up.
The issue is that during data entry in the procedure record (cataloging, loans, etc.), the predictive text field allows you to enter and select a non-preferred term, rather than automatically setting it to the preferred term. So when you search for the non-preferred term, how is a viewer to know that the returned catalog records are using the preferred or non-preferred term?
We were wondering if there was a way to make is so that when you are entering a non-preferred concept term that it automatically sets it to the preferred term? Otherwise, the whole idea of preferred and non-preferred seems irrelevant if you can't always default to what is preferred. Or is this a matter or work flow. Possibly making it clearer in the UI what is preferred vs. non-preferred?
Does this make sense?
Kara S. Vetter | Registrar
San Diego Museum of Man
1350 El Prado, Balboa Park | San Diego, CA 92101
619-239-2001, ext 44 | kvetter@museumofman.orgmailto:kvetter@museumofman.org
Race: Are We So Different?http://www.museumofman.org/exhibit/race-are-we-so-different
Join us for an eye-opening look at
the reality - and unreality - of race.
Hello Kara, and talk,
It's incredible timing that you are posting this question, because we're
experiencing a similar issue, and I have been meaning to email "talk" to
see if others have experienced this (and to advocate for this issue being
given a high priority for core development).
In your case - I think I remember that there is a difference between the
lifesci and core tenants, in terms of how non-preferred terms are handled
in data entry. I believe that in the core tenant, non-preferred terms are
blocked from selection out of the pick list. You can see them, but they are
greyed out. In Lifesci, you can select a non-preferred term. It sounds like
you are using under this latter configuration - as are we. We opted to use
it this way primarily so that we could enter Common Name for Taxon as the
non-preferred terms of a preferred Taxon, in the Taxon authority. Perhaps
it would work for you to adopt the function that blocks the non-preferred
terms from entry.
What we didn't anticipate, and the larger issue as I see it, is that the
non-preferred terms and preferred terms do not operate interchangeably in
the search function. So searching for the preferred term in Advanced Search
will not return records that use the non-preferred term. We've adjusted our
query workflow, where everyone needs to remember to always search for
preferred and non preferred terms when running a query in advanced search.
But I agree - I see little point in distinguishing preference within the
same authority record if the preferred/non-preferred terms don't behave as
if they are structurally related.
Here's an old JIRA for this issue:
https://issues.collectionspace.org/browse/CSPACE-6247
I think this is a pretty big issue, and would love to see it get more
attention.
thanks for bringing it up!
Al
On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Kara Vetter kvetter@museumofman.org wrote:
Hello,
This is a kind of complicated question so I’m going to talk it out and
would welcome any thoughts.
When a concept term is created in the Concept Authority (or any authority)
you have the option to repeat the term group and add additional
non-preferred term group data. It is the selection of the preferred term
using the radial dial that is what is important for searching. Regardless
of using a non-preferred term in a search, it is the preferred term that
will come up.
The issue is that during data entry in the procedure record (cataloging,
loans, etc.), the predictive text field allows you to enter and select a
non-preferred term, rather than automatically setting it to the preferred
term. So when you search for the non-preferred term, how is a viewer to
know that the returned catalog records are using the preferred or
non-preferred term?
We were wondering if there was a way to make is so that when you are
entering a non-preferred concept term that it automatically sets it to the
preferred term? Otherwise, the whole idea of preferred and non-preferred
seems irrelevant if you can’t always default to what is preferred. Or is
this a matter or work flow. Possibly making it clearer in the UI what is
preferred vs. non-preferred?
Does this make sense?
Kara S. Vetter | Registrar
San Diego Museum of Man
1350 El Prado, Balboa Park | San Diego, CA 92101
619-239-2001, ext 44 | kvetter@museumofman.org
Race: Are We So Different?
http://www.museumofman.org/exhibit/race-are-we-so-different
Join us for an eye-opening look at
the reality – and unreality – of race.
Talk mailing list
Talk@lists.collectionspace.org
http://lists.collectionspace.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_lists.collectionspace.org
--
Al Bersch
Collections Systems Manager
Oakland Museum of California
1000 Oak Street, Oakland, CA 94607
abersch@museumca.org
510-318-8468
Kara,
I'll respond to your note first - as Al mentions in his response you can configure CSpace to disallow the selection of non-preferred terms. If you search for an NPT, it will appear but will be grey and unclickable, forcing the user to choose the preferred term.
Is this the functionality you're looking for?
-Megan
Megan Forbes
CollectionSpace Program Manager
megan.forbes@lyrasis.org
917.267.9676 Cell
meganbforbes Skype
From: Talk talk-bounces@lists.collectionspace.org on behalf of Kara Vetter kvetter@museumofman.org
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 6:21 PM
To: talk@lists.collectionspace.org
Subject: [Talk] Preferred and Non-Preferred concept terms
Hello,
This is a kind of complicated question so I'm going to talk it out and would welcome any thoughts.
When a concept term is created in the Concept Authority (or any authority) you have the option to repeat the term group and add additional non-preferred term group data. It is the selection of the preferred term using the radial dial that is what is important for searching. Regardless of using a non-preferred term in a search, it is the preferred term that will come up.
The issue is that during data entry in the procedure record (cataloging, loans, etc.), the predictive text field allows you to enter and select a non-preferred term, rather than automatically setting it to the preferred term. So when you search for the non-preferred term, how is a viewer to know that the returned catalog records are using the preferred or non-preferred term?
We were wondering if there was a way to make is so that when you are entering a non-preferred concept term that it automatically sets it to the preferred term? Otherwise, the whole idea of preferred and non-preferred seems irrelevant if you can't always default to what is preferred. Or is this a matter or work flow. Possibly making it clearer in the UI what is preferred vs. non-preferred?
Does this make sense?
Kara S. Vetter | Registrar
San Diego Museum of Man
1350 El Prado, Balboa Park | San Diego, CA 92101
619-239-2001, ext 44 | kvetter@museumofman.orgmailto:kvetter@museumofman.org
Race: Are We So Different?http://www.museumofman.org/exhibit/race-are-we-so-different
Join us for an eye-opening look at
the reality - and unreality - of race.
Thanks for the note, Al.
I think a good question for the group is whether the desired behavior is for a search to always return records that use either a preferred or non-preferred term, or if the user should be able to select whether or not to return results other than the specific term entered. The behavior described in 6247 is the former, but I think we'd like to ensure that's a universal desire before requesting the change.
As noted in the bug, a workaround for the moment is to use the "show" button within the authority term, which will provide a list of all uses of the term's preferred and non-preferred names.
Also, shameless plug here for membership. Want to have thrilling conversations about functionality and the prioritization of bug fixes and new feature requests? Become a member of CollectionSpace and join the functional working group today! Membership is how we sustain this project, and participation in our working groups is the best way to make your voice heard. http://www.collectionspace.org/membership/
Thanks,
Megan
Megan Forbes
CollectionSpace Program Manager
megan.forbes@lyrasis.org
917.267.9676 Cell
meganbforbes Skype
From: Talk talk-bounces@lists.collectionspace.org on behalf of Al Bersch abersch@museumca.org
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 7:03 PM
To: Kara Vetter
Cc: talk@lists.collectionspace.org
Subject: Re: [Talk] Preferred and Non-Preferred concept terms
Hello Kara, and talk,
It's incredible timing that you are posting this question, because we're experiencing a similar issue, and I have been meaning to email "talk" to see if others have experienced this (and to advocate for this issue being given a high priority for core development).
In your case - I think I remember that there is a difference between the lifesci and core tenants, in terms of how non-preferred terms are handled in data entry. I believe that in the core tenant, non-preferred terms are blocked from selection out of the pick list. You can see them, but they are greyed out. In Lifesci, you can select a non-preferred term. It sounds like you are using under this latter configuration - as are we. We opted to use it this way primarily so that we could enter Common Name for Taxon as the non-preferred terms of a preferred Taxon, in the Taxon authority. Perhaps it would work for you to adopt the function that blocks the non-preferred terms from entry.
What we didn't anticipate, and the larger issue as I see it, is that the non-preferred terms and preferred terms do not operate interchangeably in the search function. So searching for the preferred term in Advanced Search will not return records that use the non-preferred term. We've adjusted our query workflow, where everyone needs to remember to always search for preferred and non preferred terms when running a query in advanced search. But I agree - I see little point in distinguishing preference within the same authority record if the preferred/non-preferred terms don't behave as if they are structurally related.
Here's an old JIRA for this issue:
https://issues.collectionspace.org/browse/CSPACE-6247
I think this is a pretty big issue, and would love to see it get more attention.
thanks for bringing it up!
Al
On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Kara Vetter <kvetter@museumofman.orgmailto:kvetter@museumofman.org> wrote:
Hello,
This is a kind of complicated question so I’m going to talk it out and would welcome any thoughts.
When a concept term is created in the Concept Authority (or any authority) you have the option to repeat the term group and add additional non-preferred term group data. It is the selection of the preferred term using the radial dial that is what is important for searching. Regardless of using a non-preferred term in a search, it is the preferred term that will come up.
The issue is that during data entry in the procedure record (cataloging, loans, etc.), the predictive text field allows you to enter and select a non-preferred term, rather than automatically setting it to the preferred term. So when you search for the non-preferred term, how is a viewer to know that the returned catalog records are using the preferred or non-preferred term?
We were wondering if there was a way to make is so that when you are entering a non-preferred concept term that it automatically sets it to the preferred term? Otherwise, the whole idea of preferred and non-preferred seems irrelevant if you can’t always default to what is preferred. Or is this a matter or work flow. Possibly making it clearer in the UI what is preferred vs. non-preferred?
Does this make sense?
Kara S. Vetter | Registrar
San Diego Museum of Man
1350 El Prado, Balboa Park | San Diego, CA 92101
619-239-2001, ext 44tel:619-239-2001%2C%20ext%2044 | kvetter@museumofman.orgmailto:kvetter@museumofman.org
Race: Are We So Different?http://www.museumofman.org/exhibit/race-are-we-so-different
Join us for an eye-opening look at
the reality – and unreality – of race.
Talk mailing list
Talk@lists.collectionspace.orgmailto:Talk@lists.collectionspace.org
http://lists.collectionspace.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_lists.collectionspace.org
--
Al Bersch
Collections Systems Manager
Oakland Museum of California
1000 Oak Street, Oakland, CA 94607
abersch@museumca.orgmailto:abersch@museumca.org
510-318-8468
Hi Megan, thanks for getting back about my question/comment.
I agree that it would be good to make sure there is more universal desire
for having a search for a non-preferred term return the preferred results
as well, and vice-versa. actually, it's a bigger deal when searching on the
preferred term (and not returning the non-preferred use), because the
autocomplete list will automatically display the preferred term as an
option, so the user knows there is more than one term that needs to be
searched.
thanks again,
Al
On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Megan Forbes megan.forbes@lyrasis.org
wrote:
Thanks for the note, Al.
I think a good question for the group is whether the desired behavior is
for a search to always return records that use either a preferred or
non-preferred term, or if the user should be able to select whether or not
to return results other than the specific term entered. The behavior
described in 6247 is the former, but I think we'd like to ensure that's a
universal desire before requesting the change.
As noted in the bug, a workaround for the moment is to use the "show"
button within the authority term, which will provide a list of all uses of
the term's preferred and non-preferred names.
Also, shameless plug here for membership. Want to have thrilling
conversations about functionality and the prioritization of bug fixes and
new feature requests? Become a member of CollectionSpace and join the
functional working group today! Membership is how we sustain this project,
and participation in our working groups is the best way to make your voice
heard. http://www.collectionspace.org/membership/
Thanks,
Megan
Megan Forbes
CollectionSpace Program Manager
megan.forbes@lyrasis.org megan.forbes@lyrasis.org
917.267.9676 Cell
meganbforbes Skype
From: Talk talk-bounces@lists.collectionspace.org on behalf of Al
Bersch abersch@museumca.org
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 7:03 PM
To: Kara Vetter
Cc: talk@lists.collectionspace.org
Subject: Re: [Talk] Preferred and Non-Preferred concept terms
Hello Kara, and talk,
It's incredible timing that you are posting this question, because we're
experiencing a similar issue, and I have been meaning to email "talk" to
see if others have experienced this (and to advocate for this issue being
given a high priority for core development).
In your case - I think I remember that there is a difference between the
lifesci and core tenants, in terms of how non-preferred terms are handled
in data entry. I believe that in the core tenant, non-preferred terms are
blocked from selection out of the pick list. You can see them, but they are
greyed out. In Lifesci, you can select a non-preferred term. It sounds like
you are using under this latter configuration - as are we. We opted to use
it this way primarily so that we could enter Common Name for Taxon as the
non-preferred terms of a preferred Taxon, in the Taxon authority. Perhaps
it would work for you to adopt the function that blocks the non-preferred
terms from entry.
What we didn't anticipate, and the larger issue as I see it, is that the
non-preferred terms and preferred terms do not operate interchangeably in
the search function. So searching for the preferred term in Advanced Search
will not return records that use the non-preferred term. We've adjusted our
query workflow, where everyone needs to remember to always search for
preferred and non preferred terms when running a query in advanced search.
But I agree - I see little point in distinguishing preference within the
same authority record if the preferred/non-preferred terms don't behave as
if they are structurally related.
Here's an old JIRA for this issue:
https://issues.collectionspace.org/browse/CSPACE-6247
I think this is a pretty big issue, and would love to see it get more
attention.
thanks for bringing it up!
Al
On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Kara Vetter kvetter@museumofman.org
wrote:
Hello,
This is a kind of complicated question so I’m going to talk it out and
would welcome any thoughts.
When a concept term is created in the Concept Authority (or any
authority) you have the option to repeat the term group and add additional
non-preferred term group data. It is the selection of the preferred term
using the radial dial that is what is important for searching. Regardless
of using a non-preferred term in a search, it is the preferred term that
will come up.
The issue is that during data entry in the procedure record (cataloging,
loans, etc.), the predictive text field allows you to enter and select a
non-preferred term, rather than automatically setting it to the preferred
term. So when you search for the non-preferred term, how is a viewer to
know that the returned catalog records are using the preferred or
non-preferred term?
We were wondering if there was a way to make is so that when you are
entering a non-preferred concept term that it automatically sets it to the
preferred term? Otherwise, the whole idea of preferred and non-preferred
seems irrelevant if you can’t always default to what is preferred. Or is
this a matter or work flow. Possibly making it clearer in the UI what is
preferred vs. non-preferred?
Does this make sense?
Kara S. Vetter | Registrar
San Diego Museum of Man
1350 El Prado, Balboa Park | San Diego, CA 92101
619-239-2001, ext 44 | kvetter@museumofman.org
Race: Are We So Different?
http://www.museumofman.org/exhibit/race-are-we-so-different
Join us for an eye-opening look at
the reality – and unreality – of race.
Talk mailing list
Talk@lists.collectionspace.org
http://lists.collectionspace.org/mailman/listinfo/talk_lists.collectionspace.org
--
Al Bersch
Collections Systems Manager
Oakland Museum of California
1000 Oak Street, Oakland, CA 94607
abersch@museumca.org
510-318-8468
--
Al Bersch
Collections Systems Manager
Oakland Museum of California
1000 Oak Street, Oakland, CA 94607
abersch@museumca.org
510-318-8468