We already have this in the spin division where we have an even larger spread. 84 to 240 or so. John Michael is one of the slow boats but I am sure he is going to be competitive in spin. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 4, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Paul Kisala via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: > > Lee, I'm against combining the 2nd and 3rd divisions because it will become increasingly unfair. It is well known that the larger the spread in PHRF's, the more it doesn't accurately measure the speed and race potential of a vessel. Better to work on getting more boats out there. > > I'm planning on being there on Friday evening; see what transpires with regard to wind and crew. > > > > Paul J. Kisala > 13 Heritage Manor Dr. > Wayne, NJ 07470 > 917-836-6345 > > On 06/03/15, Lee via Wednightracing<wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: > > To All –; > > A wonderful night with a steady southerly at 14 – 16 mph. Thanks to Howie Rinehart and new member Diane Deveau for doing Race Committee duty. It was a tough night without a Patrol Boat to help them out. Racing results are attached. Please let me know of any mistakes or changes needed. > > We had sixteen Cruising boats on the line with some pretty hot competition. With so many boats in Division 2, and so few in Division 3, it’s looking more and more like we should combine the two divisions. (Because it’s early in the season, we can still adjust the scoring based on corrected times.) Please send me comments and any thoughts, pro or con, you might have on this subject. We have a Cruising fleet meeting scheduled for Friday, June 15th to discuss this problem as well as any other current topics of interest. > Want to race informally with friends and family on Friday evenings? Show up at the Club by 6 pm, go out for a sail, and then come back in for dinner on the patio. Remember, racing is just another excuse for a good sail. > > Lastly, this Saturday Dave Horton has arranged for boat inspections by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. If you haven’t signed up, contact Dave ASAP for a slot time. Local authorities are being especially vigilant because of the Bridge construction, and the chance of you being boarded by our local gendarmes is high. Unless, that is, you’ve got a big honkin’ sticker on your cabin saying that you’ve already been checked out by the Coast Guard. Then odds are they will wave politely as they pass by and leave you alone. Well, that’s the theory anyway. > > See you on the water. > > Lee Luce > > Cruising Fleet Secretary > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wednightracing mailing list > Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org > http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org > _______________________________________________ > Wednightracing mailing list > Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org > http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org

While the faster boats generally have the advantage in PHRF, NBC's decision to change from time-on-distance to time-on-time does make the competition considerably more balanced. It was a wise move. Dick B. On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 09:37 AM, Eric Baumes via Wednightracing wrote: We already have this in the spin division where we have an even larger spread. 84 to 240 or so.  John Michael is one of the slow boats but I am sure he is going to be competitive in spin.  Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Paul Kisala via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> > wrote: Lee,  I'm against combining the 2nd and 3rd divisions because it will become increasingly unfair.  It is well known that the larger the spread in PHRF's, the more it doesn't accurately measure the speed and race potential of a vessel.  Better to work on getting more boats out there.   I'm planning on being there on Friday evening; see what transpires with regard to wind and crew.       Paul J. Kisala 13 Heritage Manor Dr. Wayne, NJ 07470 917-836-6345   On 06/03/15, Lee via Wednightracing<wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> > wrote:   To All –; A wonderful night with a steady southerly at 14 – 16 mph. Thanks to Howie Rinehart and new member Diane Deveau for doing Race Committee duty. It was a tough night without a Patrol Boat to help them out. Racing results are attached. Please let me know of any mistakes or changes needed. We had sixteen Cruising boats on the line with some pretty hot competition. With so many boats in Division 2, and so few in Division 3, it’s looking more and more like we should combine the two divisions. (Because it’s early in the season, we can still adjust the scoring based on corrected times.) Please send me comments and any thoughts, pro or con, you might have on this subject. We have a Cruising fleet meeting scheduled for Friday, June 15th to discuss this problem as well as any other current topics of interest. Want to race informally with friends and family on Friday evenings? Show up at the Club by 6 pm, go out for a sail, and then come back in for dinner on the patio. Remember, racing is just another excuse for a good sail. Lastly, this Saturday Dave Horton has arranged for boat inspections by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. If you haven’t signed up, contact Dave ASAP for a slot time. Local authorities are being especially vigilant because of the Bridge construction, and the chance of you being boarded by our local gendarmes is high. Unless, that is, you’ve got a big honkin’ sticker on your cabin saying that you’ve already been checked out by the Coast Guard. Then odds are they will wave politely as they pass by and leave you alone. Well, that’s the theory anyway. See you on the water. Lee Luce Cruising Fleet Secretary _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org>

From my experience racing one of the slowest boats in the club, PHRF is at best approximate and only a partial solution to handicapping. It does not seem to work well when boats of vastly different PHRFs compete, and can work even less well in various conditions like light wind. Segmenting the divisions was a good thing. Doesn’t HRYRA do the same thing? From a random HRYRA sailing instructions 2014-15: 1 Less than 121, with spinnakers Code Flag #1 Blue 2 121 to 160, with spinnakers Code Flag #2 Orange 3 Greater than 160, with spinnakers Code Flag #3 Green 4 All without spinnakers Code Flag #4 White I think 2015 in Kingston last weekend we had 5 divisions though I can’t find how it was broken down. It’s interesting to see division 3 so depleted while not long ago it was the most populated and we were wringing our hands over how few were racing spinnaker. In any case be sure to make a decision soon as summer goes on, typically, the wind lightening as the evening progresses will increase, so starting some 6 or 7 minutes later is a disadvantage to division 3 boats if they are going to be combined on paper. If you do decide to combine for this season, as otherwise awards might seem silly - 3 boats jockeying for a guarnateed 1st, 2nd and 3rd, do so knowing that you can divide it up again when appropriate. If I was still in division 3 I would say combine even knowing it’s really hard to beat the faster boats. The challenge is good and I recall beating Warren a few times in years back so it’s possible if not rare. Trophies are overrated. Matt > On Jun 4, 2015, at 10:34 AM, DICK BRACKEN via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: > > While the faster boats generally have the advantage in PHRF, NBC's decision to change from time-on-distance to time-on-time does make the competition considerably more balanced. It was a wise move. > > Dick B. > > > On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 09:37 AM, Eric Baumes via Wednightracing wrote: > > We already have this in the spin division where we have an even larger spread. 84 to 240 or so. > > John Michael is one of the slow boats but I am sure he is going to be competitive in spin. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 4, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Paul Kisala via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>> wrote: > >> Lee, I'm against combining the 2nd and 3rd divisions because it will become increasingly unfair. It is well known that the larger the spread in PHRF's, the more it doesn't accurately measure the speed and race potential of a vessel. Better to work on getting more boats out there. >> >> I'm planning on being there on Friday evening; see what transpires with regard to wind and crew. >> >> >> >> Paul J. Kisala >> 13 Heritage Manor Dr. >> Wayne, NJ 07470 >> 917-836-6345 >> >> On 06/03/15, Lee via Wednightracing<wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>> wrote: >> >> To All –; >> >> A wonderful night with a steady southerly at 14 – 16 mph. Thanks to Howie Rinehart and new member Diane Deveau for doing Race Committee duty. It was a tough night without a Patrol Boat to help them out. Racing results are attached. Please let me know of any mistakes or changes needed. >> >> We had sixteen Cruising boats on the line with some pretty hot competition. With so many boats in Division 2, and so few in Division 3, it’s looking more and more like we should combine the two divisions. (Because it’s early in the season, we can still adjust the scoring based on corrected times.) Please send me comments and any thoughts, pro or con, you might have on this subject. We have a Cruising fleet meeting scheduled for Friday, June 15th to discuss this problem as well as any other current topics of interest. >> Want to race informally with friends and family on Friday evenings? Show up at the Club by 6 pm, go out for a sail, and then come back in for dinner on the patio. Remember, racing is just another excuse for a good sail. >> >> Lastly, this Saturday Dave Horton has arranged for boat inspections by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. If you haven’t signed up, contact Dave ASAP for a slot time. Local authorities are being especially vigilant because of the Bridge construction, and the chance of you being boarded by our local gendarmes is high. Unless, that is, you’ve got a big honkin’ sticker on your cabin saying that you’ve already been checked out by the Coast Guard. Then odds are they will wave politely as they pass by and leave you alone. Well, that’s the theory anyway. >> >> See you on the water. >> >> Lee Luce >> >> Cruising Fleet Secretary >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wednightracing mailing list >> Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wednightracing mailing list >> Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org <mailto:Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> >> http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> > _______________________________________________ > Wednightracing mailing list > Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org > http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org <http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org> > _______________________________________________ > Wednightracing mailing list > Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org > http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org

       Paul J. Kisala 

       On 06/03/15, Lee via Wednightracing<wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote:           
        
       
        
         

      _______________________________________________          
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Trophies are overrated. morris -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Schlanger via Wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> To: DICK BRACKEN <dbracken@optonline.net> Cc: wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> Sent: Thu, Jun 4, 2015 1:21 pm Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Racing Results, Wednesday June 3rd >From my experience racing one of the slowest boats in the club, PHRF is at best approximate and only a partial solution to handicapping. It does not seem to work well when boats of vastly different PHRFs compete, and can work even less well in various conditions like light wind. Segmenting the divisions was a good thing. Doesn’t HRYRA do the same thing? From a random HRYRA sailing instructions 2014-15: 1 Less than 121, with spinnakers Code Flag #1 Blue 2 121 to 160, with spinnakers Code Flag #2 Orange 3 Greater than 160, with spinnakers Code Flag #3 Green 4 All without spinnakers Code Flag #4 White I think 2015 in Kingston last weekend we had 5 divisions though I can’t find how it was broken down. It’s interesting to see division 3 so depleted while not long ago it was the most populated and we were wringing our hands over how few were racing spinnaker. In any case be sure to make a decision soon as summer goes on, typically, the wind lightening as the evening progresses will increase, so starting some 6 or 7 minutes later is a disadvantage to division 3 boats if they are going to be combined on paper. If you do decide to combine for this season, as otherwise awards might seem silly - 3 boats jockeying for a guarnateed 1st, 2nd and 3rd, do so knowing that you can divide it up again when appropriate. If I was still in division 3 I would say combine even knowing it’s really hard to beat the faster boats. The challenge is good and I recall beating Warren a few times in years back so it’s possible if not rare. Trophies are overrated. Matt On Jun 4, 2015, at 10:34 AM, DICK BRACKEN via Wednightracing < wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: While the faster boats generally have the advantage in PHRF, NBC's decision to change from time-on-distance to time-on-time does make the competition considerably more balanced. It was a wise move. Dick B. On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 09:37 AM, Eric Baumes via Wednightracing wrote: We already have this in the spin division where we have an even larger spread. 84 to 240 or so. John Michael is one of the slow boats but I am sure he is going to be competitive in spin. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Paul Kisala via Wednightracing < wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: Lee, I'm against combining the 2nd and 3rd divisions because it will become increasingly unfair. It is well known that the larger the spread in PHRF's, the more it doesn't accurately measure the speed and race potential of a vessel. Better to work on getting more boats out there. I'm planning on being there on Friday evening; see what transpires with regard to wind and crew. Paul J. Kisala 13 Heritage Manor Dr. Wayne, NJ 07470 917-836-6345 On 06/03/15, Lee via Wednightracing<wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org> wrote: To All –; A wonderful night with a steady southerly at 14 – 16 mph. Thanks to Howie Rinehart and new member Diane Deveau for doing Race Committee duty. It was a tough night without a Patrol Boat to help them out. Racing results are attached. Please let me know of any mistakes or changes needed. We had sixteen Cruising boats on the line with some pretty hot competition. With so many boats in Division 2, and so few in Division 3, it’s looking more and more like we should combine the two divisions. (Because it’s early in the season, we can still adjust the scoring based on corrected times.) Please send me comments and any thoughts, pro or con, you might have on this subject. We have a Cruising fleet meeting scheduled for Friday, June 15th to discuss this problem as well as any other current topics of interest. Want to race informally with friends and family on Friday evenings? Show up at the Club by 6 pm, go out for a sail, and then come back in for dinner on the patio. Remember, racing is just another excuse for a good sail. Lastly, this Saturday Dave Horton has arranged for boat inspections by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. If you haven’t signed up, contact Dave ASAP for a slot time. Local authorities are being especially vigilant because of the Bridge construction, and the chance of you being boarded by our local gendarmes is high. Unless, that is, you’ve got a big honkin’ sticker on your cabin saying that you’ve already been checked out by the Coast Guard. Then odds are they will wave politely as they pass by and leave you alone. Well, that’s the theory anyway. See you on the water. Lee Luce Cruising Fleet Secretary _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org _______________________________________________ Wednightracing mailing list Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org