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Re: [PUP] Gentle Wind - Naiad stabilizers (was: still in Tahiti)

P
paul@whooppee.com
Mon, Sep 5, 2005 6:42 PM
<snip>

You might consider setting up
an hourly check procedure.

<snip>

We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for
every single hour under way.  Any anomalies are
logged in the ship's log and investigated with an
appropriate degree of urgency.  IE, a slow leak in
the fresh water line might wait until the captain's or
engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for
waking the captain immediately!

The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss
of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire
10 quarts!  When a high pressure hose breaks, it
doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out!

We're removing ALL the old brittle hoses, and
we're going to order all new hoses, cut to length
and with fittings installed, from a Naiad factory
rep in San Diego.  I figure if one hose has broken
the other 15 hoses c&n't be too far behind!  :)
So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea
waiting for delivery of the parts.

It could've been worse - we could've had to wait
for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than
a beautiful south pacific paradise!  (Always look
for the silver lining...)

<snip> > You might consider setting up > an hourly check procedure. <snip> We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for every single hour under way. Any anomalies are logged in the ship's log and investigated with an appropriate degree of urgency. IE, a slow leak in the fresh water line might wait until the captain's or engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for waking the captain immediately! The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire 10 quarts! When a high pressure hose breaks, it doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out! We're removing _ALL_ the old brittle hoses, and we're going to order all new hoses, cut to length and with fittings installed, from a Naiad factory rep in San Diego. I figure if one hose has broken the other 15 hoses c&n't be too far behind! :) So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea waiting for delivery of the parts. It could've been worse - we could've had to wait for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than a beautiful south pacific paradise! (Always look for the silver lining...)
RR
Rick Redfern
Mon, Sep 5, 2005 6:58 PM

--- paul@whooppee.com wrote:

<snip>

You might consider setting up
an hourly check procedure.

<snip>

We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for
every single hour under way.  Any anomalies are
logged in the ship's log and investigated with an
appropriate degree of urgency.  IE, a slow leak in
the fresh water line might wait until the captain's
or
engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for
waking the captain immediately!

The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss
of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire
10 quarts!  When a high pressure hose breaks, it
doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out!

We're removing ALL the old brittle hoses,
So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea
waiting for delivery of the parts.

It could've been worse - we could've had to wait
for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than
a beautiful south pacific paradise!  (Always look
for the silver lining...)

Paul:

Glad to hear that you are taking preventive action
as opposed to reactive action. Using an infrared
temp checker probably would not prevent a sudden
burst of a high pressure hydraulic line. And yes, they

can drain a reservoir of hydraulic fluid very quickly.
But hey, as you said, it could have been in a cold
place and someone has to sit wait for the parts to
arrive from San Diego. Kind of like what the attitude
we have to adopt by living here in Southern
California,
someone has to live here.
Envious of your "horrible" situation of waiting for
parts to be assembled and shipped to Tahiti.
Someone's got to do it.
regards,
Rick Redfern

--- paul@whooppee.com wrote: > > <snip> > > You might consider setting up > > an hourly check procedure. > <snip> > > We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for > every single hour under way. Any anomalies are > logged in the ship's log and investigated with an > appropriate degree of urgency. IE, a slow leak in > the fresh water line might wait until the captain's > or > engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for > waking the captain immediately! > > The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss > of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire > 10 quarts! When a high pressure hose breaks, it > doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out! > > We're removing _ALL_ the old brittle hoses, > So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea > waiting for delivery of the parts. > > It could've been worse - we could've had to wait > for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than > a beautiful south pacific paradise! (Always look > for the silver lining...) > Paul: Glad to hear that you are taking preventive action as opposed to reactive action. Using an infrared temp checker probably would not prevent a sudden burst of a high pressure hydraulic line. And yes, they can drain a reservoir of hydraulic fluid very quickly. But hey, as you said, it could have been in a cold place and someone has to sit wait for the parts to arrive from San Diego. Kind of like what the attitude we have to adopt by living here in Southern California, someone has to live here. Envious of your "horrible" situation of waiting for parts to be assembled and shipped to Tahiti. Someone's got to do it. regards, Rick Redfern
RR
Rick Redfern
Mon, Sep 5, 2005 6:59 PM

--- paul@whooppee.com wrote:

<snip>

You might consider setting up
an hourly check procedure.

<snip>

We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for
every single hour under way.  Any anomalies are
logged in the ship's log and investigated with an
appropriate degree of urgency.  IE, a slow leak in
the fresh water line might wait until the captain's
or
engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for
waking the captain immediately!

The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss
of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire
10 quarts!  When a high pressure hose breaks, it
doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out!

We're removing ALL the old brittle hoses,
So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea
waiting for delivery of the parts.

It could've been worse - we could've had to wait
for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than
a beautiful south pacific paradise!  (Always look
for the silver lining...)

Paul:

Glad to hear that you are taking preventive action
as opposed to reactive action. Using an infrared
temp checker probably would not prevent a sudden
burst of a high pressure hydraulic line. And yes, they

can drain a reservoir of hydraulic fluid very quickly.
But hey, as you said, it could have been in a cold
place and someone has to sit wait for the parts to
arrive from San Diego. Kind of like what the attitude
we have to adopt by living here in Southern
California,
someone has to live here.
Envious of your "horrible" situation of waiting for
parts to be assembled and shipped to Tahiti.
Someone's got to do it.
regards,
Rick Redfern

--- paul@whooppee.com wrote: > > <snip> > > You might consider setting up > > an hourly check procedure. > <snip> > > We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for > every single hour under way. Any anomalies are > logged in the ship's log and investigated with an > appropriate degree of urgency. IE, a slow leak in > the fresh water line might wait until the captain's > or > engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for > waking the captain immediately! > > The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss > of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire > 10 quarts! When a high pressure hose breaks, it > doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out! > > We're removing _ALL_ the old brittle hoses, > So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea > waiting for delivery of the parts. > > It could've been worse - we could've had to wait > for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than > a beautiful south pacific paradise! (Always look > for the silver lining...) > Paul: Glad to hear that you are taking preventive action as opposed to reactive action. Using an infrared temp checker probably would not prevent a sudden burst of a high pressure hydraulic line. And yes, they can drain a reservoir of hydraulic fluid very quickly. But hey, as you said, it could have been in a cold place and someone has to sit wait for the parts to arrive from San Diego. Kind of like what the attitude we have to adopt by living here in Southern California, someone has to live here. Envious of your "horrible" situation of waiting for parts to be assembled and shipped to Tahiti. Someone's got to do it. regards, Rick Redfern
RR
Ron Rogers
Tue, Sep 6, 2005 5:25 AM

I believe that a passive defense is the best defense. By this I mean, you
take an action which scares people off without actually harming them.
Yesterday, I learned of the existence of a 12 guage shotgun shell which
produces a "breath" of flame. One writer says, "All Purpose Amino Co.
manufactures the Dragon's Breath shell, loaded with exothermic metals that
sends a giant flamethrower-size trace out to 300 feet." [This is an
exageration.]
Whatever the reality, it sends out a scary ball of fire which may only go
out 30 feet, but probably looks much bigger. One writer says that the shell
contains zirconium. A first-hand account from a fellow in SOF, states that
it does not harm the barrel and it is quite intimidating. He also assured me
that this is NOT an indoor round as it would set everything on fire.
However, a boat which is following you (not the USCG, hopefully) or
attempting to intercept you might think twice if you fire a ball of flame at
them. This is a dangerous munition and is banned in many states: Florida and
Illinois for example. But, at sea, it should be a wonderful deterrent. The
URL below was found via Google and I know nothing about them. But they do
sell 3 of these shells at a reasonable price. I suggest that you stay away
from their other offerings unless you encounter someone who is familiar with
them. The "Super Flare" and the "Siren" shells do sound interesting as a
method of signalling distress, but I know nothing about their actual value.
Here is the seller I found:

<
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.atlasammo.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15431d1dd98a3a9/shopdata/index.shopscript >

We all read about the incident off Yemen where one man with a shotgun and
another with a steel hulled sailboat did in some attacking pirates. As
skilled and fortunate as they were, I'd rather scare them off if possible.

This firm also says that they sell 37mm flares. I've only seen one fired
once and it was truly impressive, but the person who fired it absorbed allot
of recoil.

Ron Rogers

I believe that a passive defense is the best defense. By this I mean, you take an action which scares people off without actually harming them. Yesterday, I learned of the existence of a 12 guage shotgun shell which produces a "breath" of flame. One writer says, "All Purpose Amino Co. manufactures the Dragon's Breath shell, loaded with exothermic metals that sends a giant flamethrower-size trace out to 300 feet." [This is an exageration.] Whatever the reality, it sends out a scary ball of fire which may only go out 30 feet, but probably looks much bigger. One writer says that the shell contains zirconium. A first-hand account from a fellow in SOF, states that it does not harm the barrel and it is quite intimidating. He also assured me that this is NOT an indoor round as it would set everything on fire. However, a boat which is following you (not the USCG, hopefully) or attempting to intercept you might think twice if you fire a ball of flame at them. This is a dangerous munition and is banned in many states: Florida and Illinois for example. But, at sea, it should be a wonderful deterrent. The URL below was found via Google and I know nothing about them. But they do sell 3 of these shells at a reasonable price. I suggest that you stay away from their other offerings unless you encounter someone who is familiar with them. The "Super Flare" and the "Siren" shells do sound interesting as a method of signalling distress, but I know nothing about their actual value. Here is the seller I found: < https://ssl.perfora.net/www.atlasammo.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15431d1dd98a3a9/shopdata/index.shopscript > We all read about the incident off Yemen where one man with a shotgun and another with a steel hulled sailboat did in some attacking pirates. As skilled and fortunate as they were, I'd rather scare them off if possible. This firm also says that they sell 37mm flares. I've only seen one fired once and it was truly impressive, but the person who fired it absorbed allot of recoil. Ron Rogers
K
Keith
Tue, Sep 6, 2005 7:36 AM

...and if you like those, check out this site: http://www.firequest.com/
A lot of exotic ammo, gun mods, etc. You probably wouldn't believe what you
can fire out of your 12 gauge.

Keith


If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Rogers" rcrogers6@kennett.net

I believe that a passive defense is the best defense. By this I mean, you
take an action which scares people off without actually harming them.
Yesterday, I learned of the existence of a 12 guage shotgun shell which
produces a "breath" of flame. One writer says, "All Purpose Amino Co.
manufactures the Dragon's Breath shell, loaded with exothermic metals that
sends a giant flamethrower-size trace out to 300 feet." [This is an
exageration.]<snip>

...and if you like those, check out this site: http://www.firequest.com/ A lot of exotic ammo, gun mods, etc. You probably wouldn't believe what you can fire out of your 12 gauge. Keith _____ If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rogers" <rcrogers6@kennett.net> >I believe that a passive defense is the best defense. By this I mean, you > take an action which scares people off without actually harming them. > Yesterday, I learned of the existence of a 12 guage shotgun shell which > produces a "breath" of flame. One writer says, "All Purpose Amino Co. > manufactures the Dragon's Breath shell, loaded with exothermic metals that > sends a giant flamethrower-size trace out to 300 feet." [This is an > exageration.]<snip>
RG
Rod Gibbons
Tue, Sep 6, 2005 7:32 PM

FULL  DISCLOSURE:  The following is written by a guy who sells catamarans.

Nevertheless, I was born and raised on monohulls in the Pugest Sound
area -- and, in fact, had never set foot aboard a cat until I was in my
30s. And in the quarter-century since? During all subsequent cruising
(including a 9-month/9,000-mile singlehanded jaunt [via catamaran]
across the Atlantic, thru the Caribbean, and ending in New England) I
haven't spent a single night aboard a monohull.

Why? Because once I was introduced me to the twin-hull altnerative, I
was "spoil't fer life."

My point? Time and again, when my crews are engaged in deliveries of
cats, they relate stories about accompanying monohull cruisers who,
losing their stabilizer systems, find life at sea almost intolerable
(depending, of course, on the sea  state and its direction -- in calm
conditions, whether aboard a cat or mono makes little
difference....except that a displacement-hulled cat can cruise at twice
the speed of a displacement-hull monohull). Those observations are
reinforced by e-mails posted recently here -- when the monohull cruisers
lose their stabilizer systems, they're pretty much "dead in the water"
until repairs can be affected. And we're reading about such breakdowns
with increasing frequency:  the recent power-cruiser "race" to Bermuda;
PassageMaker's article about the Nordhavn Atlantic rally; assorted
e-mails on this site -- time and again, losing the stabilizer system has
owners stalled in a port, subject to sometimes costly repairs, even
flights home so as to get otherwise tough-to-import/deliver parts.

Well, a catamaran hull obviates that entire concern. (What's more, we're
alerted that stabilizers don't help you in a rolly anchorage....but twin
hulls do.)

I never even pretend that the catamaran configuration is the "end all
and be all" of yacht design. (I own a singlehull runabout for casual day
use.) But given that almost ALL cruising-cat owners were initially
monohull owners, and given that in 25 years I've only heard of 2 cat
owners who switched back to a monohull, it's worth mentioning this
alternative as compared to the various "how-to-repair," "how to
maintain," "which one is better" articles regarding monohull
stabilizers. It may calm the potentially growing fears of would-be
cruisers who are reading these delightful and inspiring cruising stories
to at least be aware that all the cautionary tales regarding unreliable
stabilizers notwithstanding, a cruising yachtsman needn't necessarily be
shackled to the vicissitudes of a mechanical stabilizing system. Twin
hull designs offer an inherent 24/7 stability factor.

Okay....soap-box dismantled -- back to the insightful and engaging
singlehull ruminations.

Rod Gibbons

paul@whooppee.com wrote:

<snip>

You might consider setting up
an hourly check procedure.

<snip>

We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for
every single hour under way.  Any anomalies are
logged in the ship's log and investigated with an
appropriate degree of urgency.  IE, a slow leak in
the fresh water line might wait until the captain's or
engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for
waking the captain immediately!

The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss
of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire
10 quarts!  When a high pressure hose breaks, it
doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out!

We're removing ALL the old brittle hoses, and
we're going to order all new hoses, cut to length
and with fittings installed, from a Naiad factory
rep in San Diego.  I figure if one hose has broken
the other 15 hoses c&n't be too far behind!  :)
So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea
waiting for delivery of the parts.

It could've been worse - we could've had to wait
for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than
a beautiful south pacific paradise!  (Always look
for the silver lining...)


Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List

FULL DISCLOSURE: The following is written by a guy who sells catamarans. Nevertheless, I was born and raised on monohulls in the Pugest Sound area -- and, in fact, had never set foot aboard a cat until I was in my 30s. And in the quarter-century since? During all subsequent cruising (including a 9-month/9,000-mile singlehanded jaunt [via catamaran] across the Atlantic, thru the Caribbean, and ending in New England) I haven't spent a single night aboard a monohull. Why? Because once I was introduced me to the twin-hull altnerative, I was "spoil't fer life." My point? Time and again, when my crews are engaged in deliveries of cats, they relate stories about accompanying monohull cruisers who, losing their stabilizer systems, find life at sea almost intolerable (depending, of course, on the sea state and its direction -- in calm conditions, whether aboard a cat or mono makes little difference....except that a displacement-hulled cat can cruise at twice the speed of a displacement-hull monohull). Those observations are reinforced by e-mails posted recently here -- when the monohull cruisers lose their stabilizer systems, they're pretty much "dead in the water" until repairs can be affected. And we're reading about such breakdowns with increasing frequency: the recent power-cruiser "race" to Bermuda; PassageMaker's article about the Nordhavn Atlantic rally; assorted e-mails on this site -- time and again, losing the stabilizer system has owners stalled in a port, subject to sometimes costly repairs, even flights home so as to get otherwise tough-to-import/deliver parts. Well, a catamaran hull obviates that entire concern. (What's more, we're alerted that stabilizers don't help you in a rolly anchorage....but twin hulls do.) I never even pretend that the catamaran configuration is the "end all and be all" of yacht design. (I own a singlehull runabout for casual day use.) But given that almost ALL cruising-cat owners were initially monohull owners, and given that in 25 years I've only heard of 2 cat owners who switched back to a monohull, it's worth mentioning this alternative as compared to the various "how-to-repair," "how to maintain," "which one is better" articles regarding monohull stabilizers. It may calm the potentially growing fears of would-be cruisers who are reading these delightful and inspiring cruising stories to at least be aware that all the cautionary tales regarding unreliable stabilizers notwithstanding, a cruising yachtsman needn't necessarily be shackled to the vicissitudes of a mechanical stabilizing system. Twin hull designs offer an inherent 24/7 stability factor. Okay....soap-box dismantled -- back to the insightful and engaging singlehull ruminations. Rod Gibbons paul@whooppee.com wrote: ><snip> > > >>You might consider setting up >>an hourly check procedure. >> >> ><snip> > >We do indeed have an hourly check procedure, for >every single hour under way. Any anomalies are >logged in the ship's log and investigated with an >appropriate degree of urgency. IE, a slow leak in >the fresh water line might wait until the captain's or >engineer's next watch while smoke is cause for >waking the captain immediately! > >The problem in this case isn't a slow gradual loss >of hydraulic fluid, it was sudden loss of the entire >10 quarts! When a high pressure hose breaks, it >doesn't take an hour to pump the fluid out! > >We're removing _ALL_ the old brittle hoses, and >we're going to order all new hoses, cut to length >and with fittings installed, from a Naiad factory >rep in San Diego. I figure if one hose has broken >the other 15 hoses c&n't be too far behind! :) >So we are going to stay a week or two in Raiatea >waiting for delivery of the parts. > >It could've been worse - we could've had to wait >for delivery in some cold, dark place rather than >a beautiful south pacific paradise! (Always look >for the silver lining...) > >_______________________________________________ >Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List > > >