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Discussion of precise voltage measurement

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LTZ1000ACH and LTZ1000CH in China

BS
Bob Smither
Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:54 PM

Neil Gruending wrote:

Bad power supply?

Thanks for the reply.  One of the first things I checked was the power
supply levels - all are correct.

--
Bob Smither, PhD                                  Circuit Concepts, Inc.


---=======
Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed.
-- W. C. Bennett


---=======
Smither@C-C-I.Com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)

Neil Gruending wrote: > Bad power supply? Thanks for the reply. One of the first things I checked was the power supply levels - all are correct. -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. ========================================================================= Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed. -- W. C. Bennett ========================================================================= Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax)
BS
Bob Smither
Sun, Aug 28, 2011 5:08 PM

gbusg wrote:

Neil's suggestion (to check the power supplies) is a good one.

Make sure the +5V, -15V and +15V rails are correct - and use an oscilloscope
to check for excessive ripple.

Done.  All the supply rails look good.

You didn't mention if you have the rechargable battery option (opt. 001),
but if so, that adds to the number of possible problems.

The unit does not have that option.

I definitely would replace the 3 volt lithium cell (BT551) ASAP.

I did this, but no change.  I wonder if the boot process is assuming
something that has been lost from the RAM.

Also make sure that the front panel "Reset" button isn't stuck in the
pushed-in position.

Reset button?  Don't see that.

If you're lucky, doing all the above will lead to a cure. If not, then it
sounds like some other fault is still causing the "RESET" line (at U501) to
keep cycling. It doesn't sound like you're getting through the turn-on
self-tests far enough to see possible further error codes (e.g., Calibration
RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error, or A/D converter error).

Agreed.

Let us know how you come-out on it.

Will do.

Thanks for the feedback!

Bob Smither, PhD                                  Circuit Concepts, Inc.


---=======
Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed.
-- W. C. Bennett


---=======
Smither@C-C-I.Com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)

gbusg wrote: > Neil's suggestion (to check the power supplies) is a good one. > > Make sure the +5V, -15V and +15V rails are correct - and use an oscilloscope > to check for excessive ripple. Done. All the supply rails look good. > You didn't mention if you have the rechargable battery option (opt. 001), > but if so, that adds to the number of possible problems. The unit does not have that option. > I definitely would replace the 3 volt lithium cell (BT551) ASAP. I did this, but no change. I wonder if the boot process is assuming something that has been lost from the RAM. > Also make sure that the front panel "Reset" button isn't stuck in the > pushed-in position. Reset button? Don't see that. > > If you're lucky, doing all the above will lead to a cure. If not, then it > sounds like some other fault is still causing the "RESET" line (at U501) to > keep cycling. It doesn't sound like you're getting through the turn-on > self-tests far enough to see possible further error codes (e.g., Calibration > RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error, or A/D converter error). Agreed. > Let us know how you come-out on it. Will do. Thanks for the feedback! -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. ========================================================================= Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed. -- W. C. Bennett ========================================================================= Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax)
BS
Bob Smither
Sun, Aug 28, 2011 5:09 PM

Artekmedia wrote:

Earlier posters suggestions to replace the RAM battery and to check the
power supplies for proper voltage and ripple is ALWAYS the 1st place to
start with this old gear (even if it is working!)

There is a group on yahoo dedicated to fixing and maintaining older HP gear

hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com

Thanks!  I will check out the group.

--


---=====
Bob Smither, Ph.D.                                      Bob@Smither.net

I have a Dream:
First, Ron Paul becomes the Republican nominee.
Second, Dr. Paul becomes President Paul.
Third, our country becomes America again.


---=====

Artekmedia wrote: > Earlier posters suggestions to replace the RAM battery and to check the > power supplies for proper voltage and ripple is ALWAYS the 1st place to > start with this old gear (even if it is working!) > > There is a group on yahoo dedicated to fixing and maintaining older HP gear > > hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com Thanks! I will check out the group. -- ======================================================================= Bob Smither, Ph.D. Bob@Smither.net I have a Dream: First, Ron Paul becomes the Republican nominee. Second, Dr. Paul becomes President Paul. Third, our country becomes America again. =======================================================================
G
gbusg
Sun, Aug 28, 2011 9:55 PM

Bob wrote:

Reset button?  Don't see that.

The Reset function can be invoked by hitting "blue" (keyshift) key +
SGL/TRIG (TEST/RESET). (This might be only labeled "TEST" in blue on some
versions.)

I did this, but no change.  I wonder if the boot process is assuming
something that has been lost from the RAM.

Good question. I'm not 100% sure, but at that point I'd still expect
Self-Test to conclude with a displayed error (such as  Calibration
RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error).

So I'm still wondering what/why the CPU (U501) seems caught in an endless
RESET loop?

Does the instrument seem to respond to any front panel keys at all?

Just as a "sanity" check, it might be worthwhile to make sure all front
panel keys are free (and that none of them are stuck).

Sorry to hear none of the "easy" things were the cause so far.

--Greg

Bob wrote: > Reset button? Don't see that. The Reset function can be invoked by hitting "blue" (keyshift) key + SGL/TRIG (TEST/RESET). (This might be only labeled "TEST" in blue on some versions.) > I did this, but no change. I wonder if the boot process is assuming > something that has been lost from the RAM. Good question. I'm not 100% sure, but at that point I'd still expect Self-Test to conclude with a displayed error (such as Calibration RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error). So I'm still wondering what/why the CPU (U501) seems caught in an endless RESET loop? Does the instrument seem to respond to any front panel keys at all? Just as a "sanity" check, it might be worthwhile to make sure *all* front panel keys are free (and that none of them are stuck). Sorry to hear none of the "easy" things were the cause so far. --Greg
BS
Bob Smither
Mon, Aug 29, 2011 4:55 AM

gbusg wrote:

Bob wrote:

Reset button?  Don't see that.

The Reset function can be invoked by hitting "blue" (keyshift) key +
SGL/TRIG (TEST/RESET). (This might be only labeled "TEST" in blue on some
versions.)

Oops!  Found it.  Unfortunately activating it makes no difference.

I did this, but no change.  I wonder if the boot process is assuming
something that has been lost from the RAM.

Good question. I'm not 100% sure, but at that point I'd still expect
Self-Test to conclude with a displayed error (such as  Calibration
RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error).

So I'm still wondering what/why the CPU (U501) seems caught in an endless
RESET loop?

Does the instrument seem to respond to any front panel keys at all?

Not at all - either plain key press or in combination with the blue key.

Just as a "sanity" check, it might be worthwhile to make sure all front
panel keys are free (and that none of them are stuck).

No difference in the endless cycle with any key press.

Sorry to hear none of the "easy" things were the cause so far.

Me too!

Many thanks for the good suggestions.  I'm going to continue to poke
around in the digital section and see if I can find a bad part.

Best regards,

Bob Smither                                          smither@c-c-i.com


---=====
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a
speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district
wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have
been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and
cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to
have the assistance of counsel for his defence.
-- Sixth amendment to the Constitution of the united States


---=====
Circuit Concepts, Inc.                                    281-331-2744

gbusg wrote: > Bob wrote: > >> Reset button? Don't see that. > The Reset function can be invoked by hitting "blue" (keyshift) key + > SGL/TRIG (TEST/RESET). (This might be only labeled "TEST" in blue on some > versions.) Oops! Found it. Unfortunately activating it makes no difference. > >> I did this, but no change. I wonder if the boot process is assuming >> something that has been lost from the RAM. > Good question. I'm not 100% sure, but at that point I'd still expect > Self-Test to conclude with a displayed error (such as Calibration > RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error). > > So I'm still wondering what/why the CPU (U501) seems caught in an endless > RESET loop? > > Does the instrument seem to respond to any front panel keys at all? Not at all - either plain key press or in combination with the blue key. > > Just as a "sanity" check, it might be worthwhile to make sure *all* front > panel keys are free (and that none of them are stuck). No difference in the endless cycle with any key press. > Sorry to hear none of the "easy" things were the cause so far. Me too! Many thanks for the good suggestions. I'm going to continue to poke around in the digital section and see if I can find a bad part. Best regards, -- Bob Smither smither@c-c-i.com ======================================================================= In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence. -- Sixth amendment to the Constitution of the united States ======================================================================= Circuit Concepts, Inc. 281-331-2744
RP
Roy Phillips
Mon, Aug 29, 2011 11:03 AM

Bob
Is it possible that this  has been left in the "calibrate" mode ?  I seem
to remember that there is a DIL switch at the rear (number 8), for this
purpose. This is of course an instrument that is equipped with HP-IL, which
makes it a little less attractive, but otherwise a very well made DVM. Good
luck.
Roy


From: "Bob Smither" smither@c-c-i.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:08 PM
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3468A

gbusg wrote:

Neil's suggestion (to check the power supplies) is a good one.

Make sure the +5V, -15V and +15V rails are correct - and use an
oscilloscope
to check for excessive ripple.

Done.  All the supply rails look good.

You didn't mention if you have the rechargable battery option (opt. 001),
but if so, that adds to the number of possible problems.

The unit does not have that option.

I definitely would replace the 3 volt lithium cell (BT551) ASAP.

I did this, but no change.  I wonder if the boot process is assuming
something that has been lost from the RAM.

Also make sure that the front panel "Reset" button isn't stuck in the
pushed-in position.

Reset button?  Don't see that.

If you're lucky, doing all the above will lead to a cure. If not, then it
sounds like some other fault is still causing the "RESET" line (at U501)
to
keep cycling. It doesn't sound like you're getting through the turn-on
self-tests far enough to see possible further error codes (e.g.,
Calibration
RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error, or A/D converter error).

Agreed.

Let us know how you come-out on it.

Will do.

Thanks for the feedback!

Bob Smither, PhD                                  Circuit Concepts, Inc.


---=======
Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed.
-- W. C. Bennett


---=======
Smither@C-C-I.Com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)


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Bob Is it possible that this has been left in the "calibrate" mode ? I seem to remember that there is a DIL switch at the rear (number 8), for this purpose. This is of course an instrument that is equipped with HP-IL, which makes it a little less attractive, but otherwise a very well made DVM. Good luck. Roy -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Smither" <smither@c-c-i.com> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:08 PM To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3468A > gbusg wrote: >> Neil's suggestion (to check the power supplies) is a good one. >> >> Make sure the +5V, -15V and +15V rails are correct - and use an >> oscilloscope >> to check for excessive ripple. > > Done. All the supply rails look good. > >> You didn't mention if you have the rechargable battery option (opt. 001), >> but if so, that adds to the number of possible problems. > > The unit does not have that option. > >> I definitely would replace the 3 volt lithium cell (BT551) ASAP. > > I did this, but no change. I wonder if the boot process is assuming > something that has been lost from the RAM. > >> Also make sure that the front panel "Reset" button isn't stuck in the >> pushed-in position. > > Reset button? Don't see that. >> >> If you're lucky, doing all the above will lead to a cure. If not, then it >> sounds like some other fault is still causing the "RESET" line (at U501) >> to >> keep cycling. It doesn't sound like you're getting through the turn-on >> self-tests far enough to see possible further error codes (e.g., >> Calibration >> RAM error, or RAM error, or ROM error, or A/D converter error). > > Agreed. > >> Let us know how you come-out on it. > > Will do. > > Thanks for the feedback! > -- > Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. > ========================================================================= > Blessed is he who expects no gratitude, for he shall not be disappointed. > -- W. C. Bennett > ========================================================================= > Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
BS
Bob Smither
Mon, Aug 29, 2011 4:37 PM

Roy Phillips wrote:

Bob
Is it possible that this  has been left in the "calibrate" mode ?  I
seem to remember that there is a DIL switch at the rear (number 8), for
this purpose. This is of course an instrument that is equipped with
HP-IL, which makes it a little less attractive, but otherwise a very
well made DVM. Good luck.

Thanks for the tip.  I have tried both positions of the calibrate enable
switch - unfortunately no change :-(.

--


---========
Bob Smither  Office: (281)331-2744  Fax: (281)331-4616  Bob@Smither.net
http://www.tx.lp.org                                    LPT WebMaintainer


---========

Roy Phillips wrote: > Bob > Is it possible that this has been left in the "calibrate" mode ? I > seem to remember that there is a DIL switch at the rear (number 8), for > this purpose. This is of course an instrument that is equipped with > HP-IL, which makes it a little less attractive, but otherwise a very > well made DVM. Good luck. Thanks for the tip. I have tried both positions of the calibrate enable switch - unfortunately no change :-(. -- ========================================================================== Bob Smither Office: (281)331-2744 Fax: (281)331-4616 Bob@Smither.net http://www.tx.lp.org LPT WebMaintainer ==========================================================================
BS
Bob Smither
Mon, Aug 29, 2011 7:17 PM

gbusg wrote:

<snip>

Let us know how you come-out on it.

Well, I may have found something.  Signature analysis points to a
defective control ROM, U502.  Markings indicate this is a Mostek
MK36752P.  HP part number is 1818-1753.  The pin out looks like that of
a Motorola MCM68764 UV erasable PROM, which I can get on EBay.

So, here is a real long shot - any chance someone the volt-nuts list
would have a listing of the contents of this PROM or know where to find it?

(I will be asking the
hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com Yahoo group as well.)

Thanks!

Bob Smither, PhD                                  Circuit Concepts, Inc.


---=======
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"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.a of Proposed House Resolution 163, 108th Congress:

"It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States, and every
other person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of
18 and 26 to perform a period of national service ..."


---=======
Smither@C-C-I.Com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)

gbusg wrote: <snip> > Let us know how you come-out on it. Well, I may have found something. Signature analysis points to a defective control ROM, U502. Markings indicate this is a Mostek MK36752P. HP part number is 1818-1753. The pin out looks like that of a Motorola MCM68764 UV erasable PROM, which I can get on EBay. So, here is a real long shot - any chance someone the volt-nuts list would have a listing of the contents of this PROM or know where to find it? (I will be asking the hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com Yahoo group as well.) Thanks! -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. ========================================================================= 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the united States: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2.a of Proposed House Resolution 163, 108th Congress: "It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States, and every other person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a period of national service ..." ========================================================================= Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax)