PDQ v. Fountaine Pajot
Fountaine-Pajot Highland 35 Trawler Cat at La Rochelle, France.
My wife and I decided to forsake a visit to the International Boat Show at
Southampton and check-out several boats at the much smaller Grand Pavois at
La Rochelle. Of particular interest among these were three powercats; the
Fountaine-Pajot Highland 35 Trawler Cat and two from Excitecat, the 810 and
the new 1010. My impressions of the Highland 35 follow.
(Excitecat 810 & 1010 posted separately).
We were welcomed aboard the Highland by the owner of the French Atlantic
coast dealer who suggested we look around and then he would be there to
answer any questions.
The huge cockpit had a teak table and four chairs and still had plenty of
room to spare. The engine compartments are accessed via a hatch in the
cockpit for each hull. Under the starboard hatch, battery cut-offs are
immediately to hand but an additional soundproofing screen has to be removed
for access to daily service points. I was wondering how the forward part of
the engines were reached when I remembered that these were Volvo D2-75s and
I could see all the engines from the access hatch. No need for engine access
under the bed or wherever. A further hatch in the flying bridge overhead
provides storage for fishing rods, boat hook or other lightweight equipment.
Very neat.
Through the double sliding doors into the saloon with dinette to port,
galley to starboard. Now here I have to take exception with the marketing
people who wrote the specs for the Highland.
Fact:The dinette will not seat 8 people if they all have the original
equipment of two legs. It will seat 4 in comfort and 6 good friends but
that's it.
The same writer probably wrote "with direct access (from the cockpit) to the
galley via the serving hatch". Rubbish, it's a tiny counter.
Other examples of misleading (sometimes dishonest) verbiage are "Three
uncommonly large cabins" or "three fine and spacious cabins" - No, there are
two small doubles (4ft 8ins wide) and a very small (3ft 10ins wide tapering
to 2ft 0ins) "double" berth in the port hull of the TRIO.
Subjective terms such as spacious, large, seductive, ergonomic, majestic are
to be found in many brochures but are to be ignored; hard data, dimensions
and facts are to be preferred.
'Nuff said.
The galley is very useable with some practical touches. I do not like the
use of gelcoat as a galley worktop. It will not endure. Likewise the bare
gelcoat finish in the dinette area floor. Bad choice. The sink at 1ft
circular is not enough. It's just the right size and shape for jamming your
dinner plates. Deep and square/rectangular is much better. Other than the
cockpit doors, natural ventilation consists of a small opening window on
either side and a small roof hatch forward. I like an airy saloon so I have
my doubts about this.
A good size fridge (by European standards) is provided in the forward
furniture which would normally be the inside helm position. Engine controls
and instruments are an optional extra, a joystick replaces a wheel and no
seat is provided. Bizarre! The windscreens are now referred to as "picture
windows" like some sea-side apartment. If you opt for the "inside helm" you
do not get windscreen wipers/washers, nav instruments, VHF or any other
options required at a command position. Fountaine-Pajot obviously do not see
this boat as a foul weather cruiser.
Down a couple of stairs on each side will take you to a small lobby or
"dressing closet". Heads forward, cabin aft in the starboard hull. The DUO
has identical hulls with cabins aft and heads forward. TRIO has three cabins
and one heads. This is not for me. The heads are very light and appear to be
adequate for their purpose. A manual sea toilet is standard (see options,
later).
The flying bridge is accessed by a safe stairway to starboard and is, of
course, large for a 35 footer and is reasonable well laid out. My main
criticism is the lack of padded backrests for the seating.
The side decks and foredeck are wide and safe and the windlass locker
promises to be a useful storage area. It was stuffed with very big fenders
so I couldn't really see. The ground tackle is invisible with the anchor
having a housing under the foredeck. A hatch is provided to inspect or clear
weed/mud etc from the anchor. Very neat but adds an additional complication
if you need to work on your ground tackle on deck.
We liked this boat very much. It is very roomy and "breathes" easily. The
cockpit, saloon and galley are good to great. The cabins/berths as always
with a small cat are the weak points. Fountaine-Pajot's weakness is common
to all similar sized cats.
Didn't like poor option for a lower helm position. Gelcoat as a worktop
finish. "Stern protection" as an option when it is obvious that the design
of the boat makes this essential. Penny saving loose covers to under-floor
stowage compartments throughout the boat. Look at the photos. The small
wooden panels are loose.
We have selected most of the manufacturer's options which adds USD50k to the
basic price. Other extras on electronics, electrical and safety add a
further Euros 59k or USD76k This is well over my original budget of USD385k.
But I may be tempted.
We are arranging a sea trial later in the year, hopefully in a good blow,
any boat will behave in a flat calm.
I'll let you know.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
Further posting on Options to follow
Roger Bingham wrote from France:
My wife and I decided to forsake a visit to the International Boat Show at
Southampton and check-out several boats at the much smaller Grand Pavois at
La Rochelle. Of particular interest among these were three powercats; the
Fountaine-Pajot Highland 35 Trawler Cat and two from Excitecat, the 810 and
the new 1010.
Thank you for taking the time to prepare such detailed reports on
your impressions. I'm sure more than a few Listees appreciated it.
We look forward to hearing about the sea trials.
--Georgs
Georgs Kolesnikovs
Power Catamaran World
http://www.powercatamaranworld.com
Hi All
Many of you have been there and will understand what I am saying. Some will
agree, some will disagree. Either way please respond on-list and let us see
what the general feelings are. I begin with some background to explain where
we are coming from then follow some comments on my experiences while
looking for our next boat.
We are both teachers who chose to take early retirement on reduced pensions.
We sold up and moved to SW France in 2003. We love it here and have no
intention to return to England.
About a year ago, my wife, Janet, and I decided that we would sell our
property in France and using most of the proceeds go to N America, buy a
boat and cruise the coasts for several years. We have had a variety of
different boats over the last 20 years or so. We were in no particular rush
and so I began to research the project.
I soon discovered that whilst there would be no difficulties in finding and
buying a suitable trawler (my chosen style), the legal and regulatory
matters would not be so straight forward. There was no guarantee that we
would even be allowed into the country or if entry was granted, for how long
we would be able to stay. As visitors we would have to provide Immigration
with a contact address, a boat was not acceptable and there were many other
similar issues.
When my wife admitted that she would really prefer to keep a property in
France, the resultant reduced budget for boat purchase caused us to re-think
the whole project. So this is plan F (there were several intermediate
plans).
- Stay in France in a smaller property on the Brittany coast.
- Buy a more modest boat.
- In stages, cruise the European coast from Med to Baltic and
(hopefully) circumnavigate Great Britain.
Boats are generally more expensive in Europe (we pay between 15% and 19.6%
tax on boats and most other items depending in which country the goods are
purchased) and good trawlers are not as common as they are in N America. We
discussed our desired style of cruising and weighed in the costs of fuel
(about US$5.00 per US gallon in French marinas) moorings, maintenance,
insurance etc etc and came up with a budget of 300,000 Euros (US$381,000
today). This had to cover everything including the first year's insurance
and mooring (dockage). It had to equip our boat with all the comfort items,
enhanced electrical systems, heating and cooling, safety items and a
comprehensive navigation system and charts (we pay for them in Europe). It
sounded ample but I soon found out that it didn't go far.
The choice of suitable boat types was reduced to trawlers, power cats and
rugged monohulls, the latter being pilot boat styles built by eg Landguard,
Botnia Targa, Nelson and Seaward.
Trawlers would provide volume and economy, power cats stability and economy
and rugged monohulls with . . . . . well look at
http://www.seawardboat.com/overfall.html
So after months of research, the shortlist comprised of a European version
of your Heritage East 36 Sundeck known here as Adagio 36, the powercats
Highland 35 and Excitecat 1010, the Botnia Targa 31 or a French derivative
of this known as Tarfish 990, a lovely French-built fishing boat styled
Rhea 850 and the Seaward 29. The basic boats were well within budget but
then the horror story begins.
OPTIONS
(The following questions are mostly rhetorical and will probably apply
equally to N America and Europe)
Why do manufacturers offer as options items which are mostly essential?
Why do manufacturers offer as options items which are selected by the
majority of buyers?
Why do manufacturers price their options by thinking of a number and
doubling it?
Why does the price of similar options vary by as much as 150% from one
manufacturer to the next?
Why are compulsory holding tanks offered as an overpriced option?
Specifically:
Why is shore power an overpriced option when it is mostly essential?
Why are two extra windscreen wipers charged at $1500 on the Rhea 850?
Why does Fountaine-Pajot charge an extra $5500 to replace the two standard
manual WCs with electric WCs and holding tanks? (Two on the Duo model, one
on Trio)
Why is commissioning charged at up to $3200 as an extra when it is not an
option?
How can the installation of a washer / dryer combo vary by $2500?
How can a windlass of similar specification be $2000 more expensive on boats
from different manufacturers?
There are many more examples but I think that is enough; I think I have made
my point.
Different manufacturers are guilty by varying degrees on the blatant,
unreasonable and inexplicable prices demanded for these options. They should
be made to be more honest. Having chosen their model 875 (or whatever) at a
cost of $275.000 don't we deserve to be treated with more respect and
honesty? Instead we are exploited by the great "Options Rip-off" and screwed
for a few more dollars. It is dishonest, unreasonable and unnecessary. I
have struck off from my shortlist one of my favourite boats for that very
reason and I will advise them of my decision and the reasons why. Only in
this way are we going to be treated fairly.
The options have disproportionately pushed up the prices and are beginning
to strain the budget so the shortlist grows shorter. The cat is still my
preferred boat but it is now well over budget. I'll let you know.
Please agree, please disagree, but either way please share your feelings,
on-list, on the issue of options and extras.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
Roger,
Thank you for making explict items that I have wondered about.
PDQ pretty much puts what you need in their standard price,
and the options are few.
Manta 44 bundles their options--they package what you need
for your planned use.
I do think that some base priced packages are not usable boats,
but only provide a starting point, and this is understood.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: rbingham@tele2.fr
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: [PCW] Options and extras
OPTIONS
(The following questions are mostly rhetorical and will probably apply
equally to N America and Europe)
Why do manufacturers offer as options items which are mostly essential?
Why do manufacturers offer as options items which are selected by the
majority of buyers?
Why do manufacturers price their options by thinking of a number and
doubling it?
Why does the price of similar options vary by as much as 150% from one
manufacturer to the next?
Why are compulsory holding tanks offered as an overpriced option?
Specifically:
Why is shore power an overpriced option when it is mostly essential?
Why are two extra windscreen wipers charged at $1500 on the Rhea 850?
Why does Fountaine-Pajot charge an extra $5500 to replace the two standard
manual WCs with electric WCs and holding tanks? (Two on the Duo model, one
on Trio)
Why is commissioning charged at up to $3200 as an extra when it is not an
option?
How can the installation of a washer / dryer combo vary by $2500?
How can a windlass of similar specification be $2000 more expensive on boats
from different manufacturers?
There are many more examples but I think that is enough; I think I have made
my point.
Different manufacturers are guilty by varying degrees on the blatant,
unreasonable and inexplicable prices demanded for these options. They should
be made to be more honest. Having chosen their model 875 (or whatever) at a
cost of $275.000 don't we deserve to be treated with more respect and
honesty? Instead we are exploited by the great "Options Rip-off" and screwed
for a few more dollars. It is dishonest, unreasonable and unnecessary. I
have struck off from my shortlist one of my favourite boats for that very
reason and I will advise them of my decision and the reasons why. Only in
this way are we going to be treated fairly.
The options have disproportionately pushed up the prices and are beginning
to strain the budget so the shortlist grows shorter. The cat is still my
preferred boat but it is now well over budget. I'll let you know.
Please agree, please disagree, but either way please share your feelings,
on-list, on the issue of options and extras.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
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Chuck Johnson said
Thank you for making explict items that I have wondered about.
PDQ pretty much puts what you need in their standard price,
and the options are few.
Manta 44 bundles their options--they package what you need
for your planned use.
I do think that some base priced packages are not usable
boats, but only provide a starting point, and this is understood.
Chuck
Hi Chuck and thanks for the response.
Because I was looking at European boats I did not mention PDQ. I should
have.
PDQ are, IMO, one of the best (but not the only) customer centred
manufacturers. Their 34 is by far my preferred choice and I have never been
on one. The new 41 looks marvellous. If I could import one (34) within my
budget I would not hesitate to buy one.
However, while they offer many options at reasonable prices I cannot see
where they get US$3675 (may have changed) for the Splendide combi!! Another
Canadian manufacturer does it for US$2500. I believe the machine costs
about $1000 in N America.
How can that little table at the sitting area of the saloon port side cost
USD1275 ??? Naturally I would not opt for that.
I expect to pay for options and personalising my boat but I do not expect to
pay inflated prices for these.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
--- Roger Bingham rbingham@tele2.fr wrote:
Fountaine-Pajot Highland 35 Trawler Cat at La
Rochelle, France.
My wife and I decided to forsake a visit to the
International Boat Show at
Southampton and check-out several boats at the much
smaller Grand Pavois at
La Rochelle. Of particular interest among these were
three powercats; the
Fountaine-Pajot Highland 35 Trawler Cat and two from
Excitecat, the 810 and
the new 1010. My impressions of the Highland 35
follow.
(Excitecat 810 & 1010 posted separately).
We were welcomed aboard the Highland by the owner of
the French Atlantic
coast dealer who suggested we look around and then
he would be there to
answer any questions.
The huge cockpit had a teak table and four chairs
and still had plenty of
room to spare. The engine compartments are accessed
via a hatch in the
cockpit for each hull. Under the starboard hatch,
battery cut-offs are
immediately to hand but an additional soundproofing
screen has to be removed
for access to daily service points. I was wondering
how the forward part of
the engines were reached when I remembered that
these were Volvo D2-75s and
I could see all the engines from the access hatch.
No need for engine access
under the bed or wherever. A further hatch in the
flying bridge overhead
provides storage for fishing rods, boat hook or
other lightweight equipment.
Very neat.
Through the double sliding doors into the saloon
with dinette to port,
galley to starboard. Now here I have to take
exception with the marketing
people who wrote the specs for the Highland.
Fact:The dinette will not seat 8 people if they all
have the original
equipment of two legs. It will seat 4 in comfort and
6 good friends but
that's it.
The same writer probably wrote "with direct access
(from the cockpit) to the
galley via the serving hatch". Rubbish, it's a tiny
counter.
Other examples of misleading (sometimes dishonest)
verbiage are "Three
uncommonly large cabins" or "three fine and spacious
cabins" - No, there are
two small doubles (4ft 8ins wide) and a very small
(3ft 10ins wide tapering
to 2ft 0ins) "double" berth in the port hull of the
TRIO.
Subjective terms such as spacious, large, seductive,
ergonomic, majestic are
to be found in many brochures but are to be ignored;
hard data, dimensions
and facts are to be preferred.
'Nuff said.
The galley is very useable with some practical
touches. I do not like the
use of gelcoat as a galley worktop. It will not
endure. Likewise the bare
gelcoat finish in the dinette area floor. Bad
choice. The sink at 1ft
circular is not enough. It's just the right size and
shape for jamming your
dinner plates. Deep and square/rectangular is much
better. Other than the
cockpit doors, natural ventilation consists of a
small opening window on
either side and a small roof hatch forward. I like
an airy saloon so I have
my doubts about this.
A good size fridge (by European standards) is
provided in the forward
furniture which would normally be the inside helm
position. Engine controls
and instruments are an optional extra, a joystick
replaces a wheel and no
seat is provided. Bizarre! The windscreens are now
referred to as "picture
windows" like some sea-side apartment. If you opt
for the "inside helm" you
do not get windscreen wipers/washers, nav
instruments, VHF or any other
options required at a command position.
Fountaine-Pajot obviously do not see
this boat as a foul weather cruiser.
Down a couple of stairs on each side will take you
to a small lobby or
"dressing closet". Heads forward, cabin aft in the
starboard hull. The DUO
has identical hulls with cabins aft and heads
forward. TRIO has three cabins
and one heads. This is not for me. The heads are
very light and appear to be
adequate for their purpose. A manual sea toilet is
standard (see options,
later).
The flying bridge is accessed by a safe stairway to
starboard and is, of
course, large for a 35 footer and is reasonable well
laid out. My main
criticism is the lack of padded backrests for the
seating.
The side decks and foredeck are wide and safe and
the windlass locker
promises to be a useful storage area. It was stuffed
with very big fenders
so I couldn't really see. The ground tackle is
invisible with the anchor
having a housing under the foredeck. A hatch is
provided to inspect or clear
weed/mud etc from the anchor. Very neat but adds an
additional complication
if you need to work on your ground tackle on deck.
We liked this boat very much. It is very roomy and
"breathes" easily. The
cockpit, saloon and galley are good to great. The
cabins/berths as always
with a small cat are the weak points.
Fountaine-Pajot's weakness is common
to all similar sized cats.
Didn't like poor option for a lower helm position.
Gelcoat as a worktop
finish. "Stern protection" as an option when it is
obvious that the design
of the boat makes this essential. Penny saving loose
covers to under-floor
stowage compartments throughout the boat. Look at
the photos. The small
wooden panels are loose.
We have selected most of the manufacturer's options
which adds USD50k to the
basic price. Other extras on electronics, electrical
and safety add a
further Euros 59k or USD76k This is well over my
original budget of USD385k.
But I may be tempted.
We are arranging a sea trial later in the year,
hopefully in a good blow,
any boat will behave in a flat calm.
I'll let you know.
Regards
Roger Bingham
France
Further posting on Options to follow
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Fountaine Pajot Power Boats,
Being an owner of a fountaine pajot maryland 37
i can go along and say that FP puts together a pretty
miserable piece of machinery. The fit and finish is
terrible and they donot stand behind their warranty
claims. I would never recommend fountaine pajot to
anyone.
A very unhappy owner,
Michael Kay
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