Jim Meader asked/observed:
Looking forward to actually buying a cat soon. Have been doing a lot of
reading and have some basic questions to ask of this knowledge base.
My response: Good on you! Keep up the dialog, we'll all learn.
- Have the new "high pressure electronic controlled diesel fuel rail"
installations proved themselves. I.e. are the new diesel engines equal
in reliability to the older mechanical diesel engines?
My response: Wellllll, yes and no. Yes, modern engines have proven to be
vastly more thrrrrrifty with the fuel (and fuel budget); produce far more
power more conveniently -- in a smaller space, with less noise, etc., etc.,
than the hearty legends of yesteryear. The commercial trucking industry
thrives on these modern marvels and nothing else. Are they equal in
reliability to the legendary behemoths of old? Absolutely not! The key reason
the diesels of old got their fabulous reputations for reliability involved
mostly getting a handful of power out of several tons of engine (can you say
'low bearing loading' and stuff like that)? I have a couple of 'spare' DD
6-71's in need of a home where a 4000 lb engine that makes 160 hp forever will
be truly appreciated). I am personally convinced that if there were gasoline
engines that weighed two tons and made a mere 160 hp folks would expect and
get fabulous lifetimes from them as well. The kicker here is that modern
diesel engines are finally getting the flab trimmed off and producing power
per pound similar to today's gasoline engines, and the sad (but poorly
understood) truth is that they will have lifetimes more like their gasoline
brothers. That said, nobody today specifies old fashioned engines in
new/modern boats. You won't be finding any charming old power catamarans with
old fashioned diesels, so just accept your fate, plan your maintenance
schedule and specify the most modern and efficient engine you can find for
your modern boat. I'm probably going to the cutting edge modern diesel
electric rig with dry stack and 'keel cooling' for my eighty foot side-wheeler
(thanks to a mid-hull channel it's a power catamaran!).
- Once the newness of your dream boat wares off, does fuel economy or
get where you're going dominate your thoughts. Let's say two type of
usage 1. On your boat more than 2-3 weeks at a time and/or extended
weekend typical usage.
My response: I don't know very many boaters that spend all their time with
stopwatches and clipboards counting the cost of each activity or every
nautical mile. There's a different kinda fun! A few report on such topics,
but the real idea here is to simply get yourself and your loved ones out on
the water. Whether you live on the water or vacation there, it costs. In
your position of designing your dream, you have some serious trade-offs to
figure out for yourself. What do YOU want to do on the water? What will you
want to do by the time you get a boat built??? Space v. speed. Economy v.
time/speed. This technology v. that.... You understand, no? My personal
advice: If you are not an experienced boater, don't design a novel boat. Get
your feet wet -- literally first. Only then will you understand what the
realistic priorities are.
- Most boats do not include a trash compactor, given the limited space
on a boat and trash a fact of life I would think it would be a great
item to have.
My response: See Mr. Tennant's remarks. There is probably a sensible reason
if most folks do, or don't do something. Ask around. Most boats which
actually leave the dock and 'mess about on the water' are on a strict electric
power budget. Besides, catamarans have LOTS of useful space. Trash is
important, but not excessively so. That said, there are quite a few boats
with the appliance aboard. My thought is that the Admiral may have stipulated
that equipment, based more on what she liked at home on the dirt.....
- Technology and innovation being what it is today, why do we still
only have fixed pitched props, where is the variable pitch props?
My response: Check out the price, and you too will understand, peanut.
- Stern drives, I fully understand the maintenance issues, but with
the Volvo sea drives and the performance benefits, it seem to be worth
the trade off. Pushing water downward and back is not as efficient as
just pushing the water straight back. Is this more resistance to change
i.e. the old diesels versus the new diesels ?
My response: Check out Mr. Tennant's reply. My PDQ is also fitted with a
shaft that is nearly parallel with the waterline. In the case of a boat with
a shaft which 'points downward' the designer was quite aware of the efficiency
issues, and was likely trying to get a little trimming of the hull's pitch at
speed instead of fitting trim tabs.
- The concept of a stationary diesel running all the boats electrical
and providing power to electric motors to drive the props seems like a
good idea. Trains have used this technology for years why not boats. I
am sure there would be a size minimum for this to work.
My response: I am fitting the above mentioned eighty foot long sidewheel
paddleboat with the very most modern of such drives as we speak. Check the
proliferation of these designs entering the charter sail and power boat
fleets, as well as the universal application of these ideas to commercial
shipping.
- Old old idea, but. Why not create a say two inch false bottom with
thousands of small holes in it and the exhaust fed into this space. Net
effect under power less total water contact, therefore less drag better
fuel economy.
My response: OK Big Guy, why don't you just whip up a few prototypes, put
them on the water and tell us all how it worked? There is really big juju in
the sail world about boundary layers, laminar flow, and controlled turbulence
in hull shapes and surfaces. I know that it seems as though a lot of gas
bubbles at the boundary of the hull -- at speed of course -- should reduce the
drag, but reality has a nasty habit of ignoring our expectations and having
it's own way. Theory is charming, but reality is where it is at, and such
testing -- if it is to have any real value, is inconvenient and verrrrry
costly.
Oh well sometimes we need to think out of the box, sometimes were better
off not thinking.
My response: Agree and disagree heartily. Think a lot!!! Often one gets
stomped on, OK, get up and proceed. Our favorite ideas are never as hearty as
we would like, but never stop thinking!!!! Always nurture a healthy
curiosity. That, and a similarly healthy sense of humor is all the armor
anyone needs in this life.
Gary Bell, replying to:
Jim Meader
RE/MAX Today
VM 650-610-6455
Fax 650-591-1043
Jim Meader asked/observed:
Looking forward to actually buying a cat soon. Have been doing a lot of
reading and have some basic questions to ask of this knowledge base.
My response: Good on you! Keep up the dialog, we'll all learn.
1. Have the new "high pressure electronic controlled diesel fuel rail"
installations proved themselves. I.e. are the new diesel engines equal
in reliability to the older mechanical diesel engines?
My response: Wellllll, yes and no. Yes, modern engines have proven to be
vastly more thrrrrrifty with the fuel (and fuel budget); produce far more
power more conveniently -- in a smaller space, with less noise, etc., etc.,
than the hearty legends of yesteryear. The commercial trucking industry
thrives on these modern marvels and nothing else. Are they equal in
reliability to the legendary behemoths of old? Absolutely not! The key reason
the diesels of old got their fabulous reputations for reliability involved
mostly getting a handful of power out of several tons of engine (can you say
'low bearing loading' and stuff like that)? I have a couple of 'spare' DD
6-71's in need of a home where a 4000 lb engine that makes 160 hp forever will
be truly appreciated). I am personally convinced that if there were gasoline
engines that weighed two tons and made a mere 160 hp folks would expect and
get fabulous lifetimes from them as well. The kicker here is that modern
diesel engines are finally getting the flab trimmed off and producing power
per pound similar to today's gasoline engines, and the sad (but poorly
understood) truth is that they will have lifetimes more like their gasoline
brothers. That said, nobody today specifies old fashioned engines in
new/modern boats. You won't be finding any charming old power catamarans with
old fashioned diesels, so just accept your fate, plan your maintenance
schedule and specify the most modern and efficient engine you can find for
your modern boat. I'm probably going to the cutting edge modern diesel
electric rig with dry stack and 'keel cooling' for my eighty foot side-wheeler
(thanks to a mid-hull channel it's a power catamaran!).
2. Once the newness of your dream boat wares off, does fuel economy or
get where you're going dominate your thoughts. Let's say two type of
usage 1. On your boat more than 2-3 weeks at a time and/or extended
weekend typical usage.
My response: I don't know very many boaters that spend all their time with
stopwatches and clipboards counting the cost of each activity or every
nautical mile. There's a different kinda fun! A few report on such topics,
but the real idea here is to simply get yourself and your loved ones out on
the water. Whether you live on the water or vacation there, it costs. In
your position of designing your dream, you have some serious trade-offs to
figure out for yourself. What do YOU want to do on the water? What will you
want to do by the time you get a boat built??? Space v. speed. Economy v.
time/speed. This technology v. that.... You understand, no? My personal
advice: If you are not an experienced boater, don't design a novel boat. Get
your feet wet -- literally first. Only then will you understand what the
realistic priorities are.
3. Most boats do not include a trash compactor, given the limited space
on a boat and trash a fact of life I would think it would be a great
item to have.
My response: See Mr. Tennant's remarks. There is probably a sensible reason
if most folks do, or don't do something. Ask around. Most boats which
actually leave the dock and 'mess about on the water' are on a strict electric
power budget. Besides, catamarans have LOTS of useful space. Trash is
important, but not excessively so. That said, there are quite a few boats
with the appliance aboard. My thought is that the Admiral may have stipulated
that equipment, based more on what she liked at home on the dirt.....
4. Technology and innovation being what it is today, why do we still
only have fixed pitched props, where is the variable pitch props?
My response: Check out the price, and you too will understand, peanut.
5. Stern drives, I fully understand the maintenance issues, but with
the Volvo sea drives and the performance benefits, it seem to be worth
the trade off. Pushing water downward and back is not as efficient as
just pushing the water straight back. Is this more resistance to change
i.e. the old diesels versus the new diesels ?
My response: Check out Mr. Tennant's reply. My PDQ is also fitted with a
shaft that is nearly parallel with the waterline. In the case of a boat with
a shaft which 'points downward' the designer was quite aware of the efficiency
issues, and was likely trying to get a little trimming of the hull's pitch at
speed instead of fitting trim tabs.
6. The concept of a stationary diesel running all the boats electrical
and providing power to electric motors to drive the props seems like a
good idea. Trains have used this technology for years why not boats. I
am sure there would be a size minimum for this to work.
My response: I am fitting the above mentioned eighty foot long sidewheel
paddleboat with the very most modern of such drives as we speak. Check the
proliferation of these designs entering the charter sail and power boat
fleets, as well as the universal application of these ideas to commercial
shipping.
7. Old old idea, but. Why not create a say two inch false bottom with
thousands of small holes in it and the exhaust fed into this space. Net
effect under power less total water contact, therefore less drag better
fuel economy.
My response: OK Big Guy, why don't you just whip up a few prototypes, put
them on the water and tell us all how it worked? There is really big juju in
the sail world about boundary layers, laminar flow, and controlled turbulence
in hull shapes and surfaces. I know that it seems as though a lot of gas
bubbles at the boundary of the hull -- at speed of course -- should reduce the
drag, but reality has a nasty habit of ignoring our expectations and having
it's own way. Theory is charming, but reality is where it is at, and such
testing -- if it is to have any real value, is inconvenient and verrrrry
costly.
Oh well sometimes we need to think out of the box, sometimes were better
off not thinking.
My response: Agree and disagree heartily. Think a lot!!! Often one gets
stomped on, OK, get up and proceed. Our favorite ideas are never as hearty as
we would like, but never stop thinking!!!! Always nurture a healthy
curiosity. That, and a similarly healthy sense of humor is all the armor
anyone needs in this life.
Gary Bell, replying to:
Jim Meader
RE/MAX Today
VM 650-610-6455
Fax 650-591-1043
------------------------------