time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

View all threads

Re: [time-nuts] GSP clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

MS
Mark Spencer
Sat, May 4, 2013 11:31 PM

The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.   It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.)
 
http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281
 
I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites.  (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.)
 

 
 
 
 
 

The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.   It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.)   http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281   I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites.  (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.)            
BC
Bob Camp
Sat, May 4, 2013 11:55 PM

Hi

In a ground servo'd system, there is very little need for a Cs beam clock. The medium term stability of the Rb's is plenty good enough to allow the ground segment to keep up with / correct for what ever the space clocks are doing.

Bob

On May 4, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Mark Spencer mspencer12345@yahoo.ca wrote:

The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.  It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.)

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281

I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites.  (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.)


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi In a ground servo'd system, there is very little need for a Cs beam clock. The medium term stability of the Rb's is plenty good enough to allow the ground segment to keep up with / correct for what ever the space clocks are doing. Bob On May 4, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Mark Spencer <mspencer12345@yahoo.ca> wrote: > The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS. It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.) > > http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281 > > I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites. (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
MD
Magnus Danielson
Sun, May 5, 2013 12:06 AM

On 05/05/2013 01:31 AM, Mark Spencer wrote:

The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.  It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.)

http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281

I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites.  (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.)

I seem to recall that they even extended the capability with AUTONAV
functionality, which would significantly prolong the time without ground
control to 180 days, but beyond the cold war ending, the actual
performance of the system and also that of the infrastructure has
allowed a more relaxed situation. Just the long-livety of the birds
themselves is a factor, and then the precision you achieve by correction
of time through the regular updates is not too bad.

Also, as many Cs/Rb sats moved to Rb only operation, it has not meant
any large threat to the system, so launching birds without Cs has been
less of an issue.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/05/2013 01:31 AM, Mark Spencer wrote: > The article available for download via this URL contains some history about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS. It seems at one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift towards Rb (at least for a period of time.) > > http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281 > > I'm also speculating that the end of the cold war may have led to less emphasis being placed on the GPS system being able to operate for long periods of time without ground based intervention which would have further reduced the need to develop new and improved Cs clocks for the new GPS satellites. (In the cold war era I recall seeing estimates of how long the GPS system could operate without ground based attention.) I seem to recall that they even extended the capability with AUTONAV functionality, which would significantly prolong the time without ground control to 180 days, but beyond the cold war ending, the actual performance of the system and also that of the infrastructure has allowed a more relaxed situation. Just the long-livety of the birds themselves is a factor, and then the precision you achieve by correction of time through the regular updates is not too bad. Also, as many Cs/Rb sats moved to Rb only operation, it has not meant any large threat to the system, so launching birds without Cs has been less of an issue. Cheers, Magnus
AK
Attila Kinali
Sun, May 5, 2013 8:06 AM

On Sat, 4 May 2013 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT)
Mark Spencer mspencer12345@yahoo.ca wrote:

The article available for download via this URL contains some history
about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.   It seems at
one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development
program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift
towards Rb (at least for a period of time.)
 
http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281

Interesting article. Thanks!

		Attila Kinali

--
The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists
who also happen to be insane and gross.
-- unknown

On Sat, 4 May 2013 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Mark Spencer <mspencer12345@yahoo.ca> wrote: > The article available for download via this URL contains some history > about development issues with Rb and Cs Clocks for GPS.   It seems at > one point after the GPS system was placed into service a development > program for new Cs GPS clocks failed and by necessity there was a shift > towards Rb (at least for a period of time.) >   > http://www.insidegnss.com/node/281 Interesting article. Thanks! Attila Kinali -- The people on 4chan are like brilliant psychologists who also happen to be insane and gross. -- unknown