Hi Harvey, Emily, and CITASA folks ~ Harvey - I'm just telling you what Pat Collins (ASA president) and Kareem (of ASA) told me about organizing the session. Perhaps the rules are slightly different for an invited/ thematic panel? I'm not sure. The other stipulation, as I think you note, is that they couldn't be on the program more than twice. So, some of the people doing this sort of work were already on the program in other invited panels. And, Emily - no apology necessary, if anything apologies are all mine. I didn't mean to suggest that no sociologists were doing work on race/gender/class and the Internet, there are as you rightly point out. Lori Kendall, has been a pioneer in this area, Emily's work is exemplary, and there are new, young scholars such as Tracy Kennedy and Felicia Su Wong, who are also doing really interesting work. Let me be clear about what I meant in my original post to the list agreeing with Tracy about the disconnect between sociology and technology. My 'subfield,' if you will, within sociology is the study of race/gender/class and I started using technology in the classroom in about the mid-1990s, so for me the connections between these two seemed obvious. And, when Ebo's 1998 book "Cybertopia or Cyberghetto: Race, Class and Gender on the Internet," came out, I was optimistic that others saw this connection too and that a new field was emerging. Now, ten years later, there are very few (a handful really) of sociologists interested in race/class/gender that are equally interested in anything Internet-related. And, most of the Internet-related literature I read is not so much focused on these intersections (again, a few exceptions but not the field as a whole - especially with regard to race). I see this disconnect between sociology and Internet-studies especially in my involvement with the journal *Gender & Society* (not sponsored by ASA, but by Sociologists for Women in Society), a well-regarded sociology journal with an impact factor close to that of *New Media & Society*). I'm on the Ed Board and a frequent reviewer. I've approached Dana Britton, the current editor, several times about putting together a special issue on race/class/gender and the Internet, and she tells me again and again that there just aren't enough submissions to the journal on this issue to warrant a special issue, or even a similary themed regular issue of the journal. Her estimate: "maybe in 5 years" there will be enough work in the area to warrant a special issue. I ended up editing a special issue of the journal recently around Maggie Andersen's work on race/gender/class, but none of the contributors - all leaders in the field across a range of ages and stages of career (and invited by Britton, not me) - mentioned the Internet as a significant development in the field in the last 20 years. And, indeed, when I submitted my own work to the journal (about cyberfeminism), they had trouble even finding reviewers, and then it got rejected as not 'sociological enough.' I re-submitted the piece to a women's studies journal and it got accepted with very minor revisions (coming out this year in a special issue on technology in *Women's Studies Quarterly*). Again, Lori Kendall's work is the exception here and has appeared in *Gender & Society,*but there's only a handful of articles that have appeared there about gender and the Internet. (TIP for scholars in that subfield and on this list: submit your work there and it's likely to get a good review from me! ) So, all that is a long way round to say that what seemed to me to be an obvious connection in 1998 between one particular subfield in sociology (race/class/gender) and Internet studies, has not developed in the way that I assumed it would 10 years ago. Perhaps it's different in other subfields. There are, in my opinion, reasons to be hopeful that this will change, is changing (like the fact that ASA is organizing several special sessions on Internet-related research), but I still see a disconnect to me between sociology and Internet studies. Best, ~ Jessie On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Harvey Rich <vcsoc001@csun.edu> wrote: > I'm surprised that you were restricted to only members for a panel. Did > you actually ask someone at the ASA, or just assume it? Here's the policy > taken from the pages of the ASA website (admittedly it took some doing to > find): > > *The announced Regular Session topics listed in the Call for Papers are > open to submission of full papers from members of the Association **and > other interested individuals. * > > Admittedly, it is the policy of other sociology associations of which I am > experienced to require one to join the association if you are presenting a > paper. However, the two associations I am most familiar with (PSA and > CSA) exempt *panel organizers* from this requirement. Thus, one can get a > person from the government or a local charitable organization or another > discipline, without requiring them to join the organization. > > I can't find anywhere on the website whether or not one must join the ASA > if on the program, but I suspect there is no one size fits all rule. In > fact, I found a piece, for a CITASA pre-conference and grad student > conference in July 31, 2008, which says that full papers submitted to the > CITASA pre-conference do not count against the limit on the number of papers > that an author can present at the regular ASA conference. This would seem > to indicate an inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. > > I would email the ASA on this and perhaps you can expand your contributors > next time you do this at the ASA. > > Harvey > > > Jessie Daniels wrote: > > Just seconding Tracy's comment about the 'disconnect' within sociology > around studying Internet technology, but I remain hopeful that this may > change. > > I was recently asked by Patricia Hill Collins, incoming ASA president, to > organize a thematic session for the 2009 meetings about race, gender and the > 'new politics of community' on the Internet. I could pretty easily think > of lots of scholars doing interesting work in these areas, but in order to > be included on the panel the people needed to be current ASA members and > that requirement narrowed the pool of rather dramatically. I ended up > including 2 current ASA members, 1 person from outside the field (political > science) and 1 person from outside the U.S. (UK) - (and, offered to sponsor > the membership of the 2 non-ASA members). > > In part, I think this disconnect reflects the fact that the field is > international and interdisciplinary - both good things in my view. And > yet, there's still this 'lag' in terms of sociology's participation in this > area of study. As Paul DiMaggio and colleagues pointed out in their 2001 > Annual Review of Sociology article, *"sociologists have been slow to take > up the challenge of studying the Internet." * It was true in 2001 and, > from my view, it continues to be true. Still, I remain hopeful it's > changing. > > > ~ Jessie > > -- > http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com > http://www.racismreview.com > http://www.homelessyouthservices.org > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, T. Kennedy <tkennedy@netwomen.ca> wrote: > >> What about creating a wiki for this discussion? would be interesting to >> create a knowledge base for all these interesting tid-bits. >> >> I find the discussion interesting, useful & timely. As a PhD candidate in >> Sociology, I've been wondering about my place in the discipline; I teach >> all >> of my - cyberculture, digital culture, virtual culture, gaming, >> info/network >> society etc etc - in communications, popular culture, film or media >> studies >> depts (for the last 7 years). I have yet to find a 'home' in sociology for >> my research or teaching interests. The courses I have taught in socio - >> tech >> & society (co-taught with Barry Wellman) and women & IT (mostly work >> related) and have a different slant/focus than my other courses. >> This is not to say that I don't use soci theories in these >> communications/media classes - I certainly do (and there is overlap) - so >> I >> wonder why sociology (and many depts across the US & Canada) seem so >> distant >> to me (and certainly don't call out to me in job postings)....I've stopped >> going to soci conferences (except for citasa & depending on distance & >> funding) and have looked to other disciplines when thinking about a future >> tenure position. >> Is it just me - or do others feel this same disconnect with sociology? >> Tracy >> >> >> >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> >> Tracy L. M. Kennedy >> PhD Candidate >> Dept of Sociology >> University of Toronto >> >> Course Instructor >> Dept of Communications, Popular Culture & Film Brock University >> >> Research Coordinator >> NetLab >> University of Toronto >> >> Second Life: Professor Tracy >> >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto: >> citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] >> On Behalf Of Andrea Tapia >> Sent: February 3, 2009 8:47 AM >> To: gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il; citasa@list.citasa.org >> Subject: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand >> up? >> >> Wow. Double wow. >> >> These questions of mine have generated a lot of discussion yesterday and >> today, both on and off the list. >> >> Thank you! This has spurred me on to think in new ways about what we do >> and >> find new ways to translate it to others! >> >> I think the discussions have been very interesting. So much so, that I >> think >> I'm going to anonymize and aggregate them for everyone to read. I think >> more >> than myself might benefit from the responses. >> >> One line of questions keep popping up. >> >> Why did I exclude this or that? Why did I draw artificial boundaries >> between >> sociology of technology and other things? Wouldn't if be better if "X" >> were >> included? >> >> >> So, I pose a few questions back to the list... >> >> 1. Is the sociology of technology an umbrella term? discipline? That >> others >> fit inside? If so, what fits inside? >> >> 2. If the sociology of technology is just sociology applied to technical >> things--then does the sociology of technology offer anything that overall >> sociology doesn't in terms of theories/methods/etc.? >> >> 3. One author suggested that the sociology of technology exists only in >> the >> overlap of other things. I think this is an intriguing idea. Do you think >> it >> hold water? >> >> 4. Imagine that you found yourself on a six person team. The other >> members >> of the team were an HCI (human-computer interaction) scholar, a scholar of >> communications, an STS (science and technology studies) scholar, a >> sociologist of science/knowledge, and a philosopher of technology. After a >> few beers and some good pizza they all look at you and ask you what you >> add >> to the team that they don't already have. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CITASA mailing list >> CITASA@list.citasa.org >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CITASA mailing list >> CITASA@list.citasa.org >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CITASA mailing listCITASA@list.citasa.orghttp://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > > -- http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com http://www.racismreview.com http://www.homelessyouthservices.org

Dear all again ~ Thanks so much, Jessie, for your note! I may be opening up a can of worms, but, perhaps, one of the reasons that, at least, the study of race/class/gender and the internet has not developed as it could have is because, about a decade ago, when a few of us first started doing this, we graduate students and new assistant professors were told in so many ways at our work and/or our methods was “not sociological enough” because we were drawing on theories/methods/works from many other disciplines to help us with our research.....Of course, that sort of pushed some of us to do studies on more “traditional” communities so as to legitimize our place in our fields.....I’m glad that Gender and Society seems really open to publishing a special issue! I’m not so happy that it might take 5 years.... But, the key is what Jesse, unfortunately, recently experienced – the charge that this work is “not sociological enough” and its corresponding argument against our methods can get in the way of our developing this area. This is why I’d written a piece re: methods and internet research (“E-scaping Boundaries: Bridging Cyberspace and Diaspora Studies through Nethnography”) but, par for course, it was published (because of the editor’s request) in an anthology comprised of authors from different fields (David Silver’s _Critical Cyberculture Studies_) which doesn’t help counter the “not sociological enough” charge...*sigh* round and round this goes...... And then there’s the other part of this equation --- the constant struggle of sociologists of race, class, gender and/or its intersections to prove that our methods are sound and our work is sociological enough (i.e., not “mere experience”). I’m glad you put this out on the table, Jesse and all! I’m really happy that we’re, finally, discussing how we can buttress this area of research and, more importantly, articulating – and, hopefully, addressing - the reasons why it has been difficult to do so.... Take good care everyone - and, Jesse, really – apologies! That initial email was not directed at you, but at the ghosts of Christmases past ;o) Emily ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "We are better than we think And not yet quite what we want to be We are alive to imagination And open to possibility We will continue To invent the future" - Nikki Giovanni, "We are Virginia Tech," April 17, 2007 "We were given everything we need to know at birth... We just need to find the courage to grab it and rise up into this world expanded" - Carlos Andrés Gómez, "tipping point" from Finding the Music (2006) "True compassion is more than throwing a coin to a beggar. It demands of our humanity that if we live in a society that produces beggars, we are morally commanded to restructure that society." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Emily Noelle Ignacio Associate Professor of Sociology, Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences Box 358436, 1900 Commerce Street Tacoma, WA 98402 VM: 253/ 692-4542; Fax: 253/ 692-5718 _____ From: Jessie Daniels [mailto:jessiedanielsnyc@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:35 AM To: Harvey Rich; Emily Noelle Ignacio Cc: citasa@list.citasa.org Subject: Re: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand up? Hi Harvey, Emily, and CITASA folks ~ Harvey - I'm just telling you what Pat Collins (ASA president) and Kareem (of ASA) told me about organizing the session. Perhaps the rules are slightly different for an invited/ thematic panel? I'm not sure. The other stipulation, as I think you note, is that they couldn't be on the program more than twice. So, some of the people doing this sort of work were already on the program in other invited panels. And, Emily - no apology necessary, if anything apologies are all mine. I didn't mean to suggest that no sociologists were doing work on race/gender/class and the Internet, there are as you rightly point out. Lori Kendall, has been a pioneer in this area, Emily's work is exemplary, and there are new, young scholars such as Tracy Kennedy and Felicia Su Wong, who are also doing really interesting work. Let me be clear about what I meant in my original post to the list agreeing with Tracy about the disconnect between sociology and technology. My 'subfield,' if you will, within sociology is the study of race/gender/class and I started using technology in the classroom in about the mid-1990s, so for me the connections between these two seemed obvious. And, when Ebo's 1998 book "Cybertopia or Cyberghetto: Race, Class and Gender on the Internet," came out, I was optimistic that others saw this connection too and that a new field was emerging. Now, ten years later, there are very few (a handful really) of sociologists interested in race/class/gender that are equally interested in anything Internet-related. And, most of the Internet-related literature I read is not so much focused on these intersections (again, a few exceptions but not the field as a whole - especially with regard to race). I see this disconnect between sociology and Internet-studies especially in my involvement with the journal Gender & Society (not sponsored by ASA, but by Sociologists for Women in Society), a well-regarded sociology journal with an impact factor close to that of New Media & Society). I'm on the Ed Board and a frequent reviewer. I've approached Dana Britton, the current editor, several times about putting together a special issue on race/class/gender and the Internet, and she tells me again and again that there just aren't enough submissions to the journal on this issue to warrant a special issue, or even a similary themed regular issue of the journal. Her estimate: "maybe in 5 years" there will be enough work in the area to warrant a special issue. I ended up editing a special issue of the journal recently around Maggie Andersen's work on race/gender/class, but none of the contributors - all leaders in the field across a range of ages and stages of career (and invited by Britton, not me) - mentioned the Internet as a significant development in the field in the last 20 years. And, indeed, when I submitted my own work to the journal (about cyberfeminism), they had trouble even finding reviewers, and then it got rejected as not 'sociological enough.' I re-submitted the piece to a women's studies journal and it got accepted with very minor revisions (coming out this year in a special issue on technology in Women's Studies Quarterly). Again, Lori Kendall's work is the exception here and has appeared in Gender & Society, but there's only a handful of articles that have appeared there about gender and the Internet. (TIP for scholars in that subfield and on this list: submit your work there and it's likely to get a good review from me! ) So, all that is a long way round to say that what seemed to me to be an obvious connection in 1998 between one particular subfield in sociology (race/class/gender) and Internet studies, has not developed in the way that I assumed it would 10 years ago. Perhaps it's different in other subfields. There are, in my opinion, reasons to be hopeful that this will change, is changing (like the fact that ASA is organizing several special sessions on Internet-related research), but I still see a disconnect to me between sociology and Internet studies. Best, ~ Jessie On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Harvey Rich <vcsoc001@csun.edu> wrote: I'm surprised that you were restricted to only members for a panel. Did you actually ask someone at the ASA, or just assume it? Here's the policy taken from the pages of the ASA website (admittedly it took some doing to find): The announced Regular Session topics listed in the Call for Papers are open to submission of full papers from members of the Association and other interested individuals. Admittedly, it is the policy of other sociology associations of which I am experienced to require one to join the association if you are presenting a paper. However, the two associations I am most familiar with (PSA and CSA) exempt panel organizers from this requirement. Thus, one can get a person from the government or a local charitable organization or another discipline, without requiring them to join the organization. I can't find anywhere on the website whether or not one must join the ASA if on the program, but I suspect there is no one size fits all rule. In fact, I found a piece, for a CITASA pre-conference and grad student conference in July 31, 2008, which says that full papers submitted to the CITASA pre-conference do not count against the limit on the number of papers that an author can present at the regular ASA conference. This would seem to indicate an inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. I would email the ASA on this and perhaps you can expand your contributors next time you do this at the ASA. Harvey Jessie Daniels wrote: Just seconding Tracy's comment about the 'disconnect' within sociology around studying Internet technology, but I remain hopeful that this may change. I was recently asked by Patricia Hill Collins, incoming ASA president, to organize a thematic session for the 2009 meetings about race, gender and the 'new politics of community' on the Internet. I could pretty easily think of lots of scholars doing interesting work in these areas, but in order to be included on the panel the people needed to be current ASA members and that requirement narrowed the pool of rather dramatically. I ended up including 2 current ASA members, 1 person from outside the field (political science) and 1 person from outside the U.S. (UK) - (and, offered to sponsor the membership of the 2 non-ASA members). In part, I think this disconnect reflects the fact that the field is international and interdisciplinary - both good things in my view. And yet, there's still this 'lag' in terms of sociology's participation in this area of study. As Paul DiMaggio and colleagues pointed out in their 2001 Annual Review of Sociology article, "sociologists have been slow to take up the challenge of studying the Internet." It was true in 2001 and, from my view, it continues to be true. Still, I remain hopeful it's changing. ~ Jessie -- http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com http://www.racismreview.com http://www.homelessyouthservices.org On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, T. Kennedy <tkennedy@netwomen.ca> wrote: What about creating a wiki for this discussion? would be interesting to create a knowledge base for all these interesting tid-bits. I find the discussion interesting, useful & timely. As a PhD candidate in Sociology, I've been wondering about my place in the discipline; I teach all of my - cyberculture, digital culture, virtual culture, gaming, info/network society etc etc - in communications, popular culture, film or media studies depts (for the last 7 years). I have yet to find a 'home' in sociology for my research or teaching interests. The courses I have taught in socio - tech & society (co-taught with Barry Wellman) and women & IT (mostly work related) and have a different slant/focus than my other courses. This is not to say that I don't use soci theories in these communications/media classes - I certainly do (and there is overlap) - so I wonder why sociology (and many depts across the US & Canada) seem so distant to me (and certainly don't call out to me in job postings)....I've stopped going to soci conferences (except for citasa & depending on distance & funding) and have looked to other disciplines when thinking about a future tenure position. Is it just me - or do others feel this same disconnect with sociology? Tracy ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. Tracy L. M. Kennedy PhD Candidate Dept of Sociology University of Toronto Course Instructor Dept of Communications, Popular Culture & Film Brock University Research Coordinator NetLab University of Toronto Second Life: Professor Tracy ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. -----Original Message----- From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto:citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Tapia Sent: February 3, 2009 8:47 AM To: gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il; citasa@list.citasa.org Subject: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand up? Wow. Double wow. These questions of mine have generated a lot of discussion yesterday and today, both on and off the list. Thank you! This has spurred me on to think in new ways about what we do and find new ways to translate it to others! I think the discussions have been very interesting. So much so, that I think I'm going to anonymize and aggregate them for everyone to read. I think more than myself might benefit from the responses. One line of questions keep popping up. Why did I exclude this or that? Why did I draw artificial boundaries between sociology of technology and other things? Wouldn't if be better if "X" were included? So, I pose a few questions back to the list... 1. Is the sociology of technology an umbrella term? discipline? That others fit inside? If so, what fits inside? 2. If the sociology of technology is just sociology applied to technical things--then does the sociology of technology offer anything that overall sociology doesn't in terms of theories/methods/etc.? 3. One author suggested that the sociology of technology exists only in the overlap of other things. I think this is an intriguing idea. Do you think it hold water? 4. Imagine that you found yourself on a six person team. The other members of the team were an HCI (human-computer interaction) scholar, a scholar of communications, an STS (science and technology studies) scholar, a sociologist of science/knowledge, and a philosopher of technology. After a few beers and some good pizza they all look at you and ask you what you add to the team that they don't already have. _______________________________________________ CITASA mailing list CITASA@list.citasa.org http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org _______________________________________________ CITASA mailing list CITASA@list.citasa.org http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org _____ _______________________________________________ CITASA mailing list CITASA@list.citasa.org http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org -- http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com http://www.racismreview.com http://www.homelessyouthservices.org

In light of the discussion, an anecdote might be of interest. 1998-99, the Movement and Media Research Action Project had just completed a multi-year communication capacity building project with ten Massachusetts-based community organizing groups, primarily (save one) in communities that were primarily African American, Afro-Caribbean,Cape Verdean and Cambodian. Our media fellows, almost exclusively women, flagged as a top priority helping their groups establish themselves on the internet, and bringing their surrounding community into a digital era. We wrote a grant to the Dept of Commerce pitched as "helping communities of color bridge the digital divide." We were rejected although we were urged to resubmit. The change requested: instead of strong but small organizations in communities of color, could we find a more institutionalized partner, maybe the United way. If we resubmit with a more established, large non-profit, we would very likely succeed. We refused.... resulting grant would miss the point. And the winner of the grant for Massachusetts The State of Massachusetts Corrections Facilities requesting support to digitalize prisoners' records. THis would, given the racial composition of Massachusetts prisons, "help communities of color bridge the digital divide." Char Ryan charlotte_ryan@uml.edu Sociology Department Center for Family, Work and Community UMASS - Lowell Co-Director Movement and Media Research Action Project -----Original Message----- From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org on behalf of Jessie Daniels Sent: Thu 2/5/2009 8:34 AM To: Harvey Rich; Emily Noelle Ignacio Cc: citasa@list.citasa.org Subject: Re: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies standup? Hi Harvey, Emily, and CITASA folks ~ Harvey - I'm just telling you what Pat Collins (ASA president) and Kareem (of ASA) told me about organizing the session. Perhaps the rules are slightly different for an invited/ thematic panel? I'm not sure. The other stipulation, as I think you note, is that they couldn't be on the program more than twice. So, some of the people doing this sort of work were already on the program in other invited panels. And, Emily - no apology necessary, if anything apologies are all mine. I didn't mean to suggest that no sociologists were doing work on race/gender/class and the Internet, there are as you rightly point out. Lori Kendall, has been a pioneer in this area, Emily's work is exemplary, and there are new, young scholars such as Tracy Kennedy and Felicia Su Wong, who are also doing really interesting work. Let me be clear about what I meant in my original post to the list agreeing with Tracy about the disconnect between sociology and technology. My 'subfield,' if you will, within sociology is the study of race/gender/class and I started using technology in the classroom in about the mid-1990s, so for me the connections between these two seemed obvious. And, when Ebo's 1998 book "Cybertopia or Cyberghetto: Race, Class and Gender on the Internet," came out, I was optimistic that others saw this connection too and that a new field was emerging. Now, ten years later, there are very few (a handful really) of sociologists interested in race/class/gender that are equally interested in anything Internet-related. And, most of the Internet-related literature I read is not so much focused on these intersections (again, a few exceptions but not the field as a whole - especially with regard to race). I see this disconnect between sociology and Internet-studies especially in my involvement with the journal *Gender & Society* (not sponsored by ASA, but by Sociologists for Women in Society), a well-regarded sociology journal with an impact factor close to that of *New Media & Society*). I'm on the Ed Board and a frequent reviewer. I've approached Dana Britton, the current editor, several times about putting together a special issue on race/class/gender and the Internet, and she tells me again and again that there just aren't enough submissions to the journal on this issue to warrant a special issue, or even a similary themed regular issue of the journal. Her estimate: "maybe in 5 years" there will be enough work in the area to warrant a special issue. I ended up editing a special issue of the journal recently around Maggie Andersen's work on race/gender/class, but none of the contributors - all leaders in the field across a range of ages and stages of career (and invited by Britton, not me) - mentioned the Internet as a significant development in the field in the last 20 years. And, indeed, when I submitted my own work to the journal (about cyberfeminism), they had trouble even finding reviewers, and then it got rejected as not 'sociological enough.' I re-submitted the piece to a women's studies journal and it got accepted with very minor revisions (coming out this year in a special issue on technology in *Women's Studies Quarterly*). Again, Lori Kendall's work is the exception here and has appeared in *Gender & Society,*but there's only a handful of articles that have appeared there about gender and the Internet. (TIP for scholars in that subfield and on this list: submit your work there and it's likely to get a good review from me! ) So, all that is a long way round to say that what seemed to me to be an obvious connection in 1998 between one particular subfield in sociology (race/class/gender) and Internet studies, has not developed in the way that I assumed it would 10 years ago. Perhaps it's different in other subfields. There are, in my opinion, reasons to be hopeful that this will change, is changing (like the fact that ASA is organizing several special sessions on Internet-related research), but I still see a disconnect to me between sociology and Internet studies. Best, ~ Jessie On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Harvey Rich <vcsoc001@csun.edu> wrote: > I'm surprised that you were restricted to only members for a panel. Did > you actually ask someone at the ASA, or just assume it? Here's the policy > taken from the pages of the ASA website (admittedly it took some doing to > find): > > *The announced Regular Session topics listed in the Call for Papers are > open to submission of full papers from members of the Association **and > other interested individuals. * > > Admittedly, it is the policy of other sociology associations of which I am > experienced to require one to join the association if you are presenting a > paper. However, the two associations I am most familiar with (PSA and > CSA) exempt *panel organizers* from this requirement. Thus, one can get a > person from the government or a local charitable organization or another > discipline, without requiring them to join the organization. > > I can't find anywhere on the website whether or not one must join the ASA > if on the program, but I suspect there is no one size fits all rule. In > fact, I found a piece, for a CITASA pre-conference and grad student > conference in July 31, 2008, which says that full papers submitted to the > CITASA pre-conference do not count against the limit on the number of papers > that an author can present at the regular ASA conference. This would seem > to indicate an inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. > > I would email the ASA on this and perhaps you can expand your contributors > next time you do this at the ASA. > > Harvey > > > Jessie Daniels wrote: > > Just seconding Tracy's comment about the 'disconnect' within sociology > around studying Internet technology, but I remain hopeful that this may > change. > > I was recently asked by Patricia Hill Collins, incoming ASA president, to > organize a thematic session for the 2009 meetings about race, gender and the > 'new politics of community' on the Internet. I could pretty easily think > of lots of scholars doing interesting work in these areas, but in order to > be included on the panel the people needed to be current ASA members and > that requirement narrowed the pool of rather dramatically. I ended up > including 2 current ASA members, 1 person from outside the field (political > science) and 1 person from outside the U.S. (UK) - (and, offered to sponsor > the membership of the 2 non-ASA members). > > In part, I think this disconnect reflects the fact that the field is > international and interdisciplinary - both good things in my view. And > yet, there's still this 'lag' in terms of sociology's participation in this > area of study. As Paul DiMaggio and colleagues pointed out in their 2001 > Annual Review of Sociology article, *"sociologists have been slow to take > up the challenge of studying the Internet." * It was true in 2001 and, > from my view, it continues to be true. Still, I remain hopeful it's > changing. > > > ~ Jessie > > -- > http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com > http://www.racismreview.com > http://www.homelessyouthservices.org > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, T. Kennedy <tkennedy@netwomen.ca> wrote: > >> What about creating a wiki for this discussion? would be interesting to >> create a knowledge base for all these interesting tid-bits. >> >> I find the discussion interesting, useful & timely. As a PhD candidate in >> Sociology, I've been wondering about my place in the discipline; I teach >> all >> of my - cyberculture, digital culture, virtual culture, gaming, >> info/network >> society etc etc - in communications, popular culture, film or media >> studies >> depts (for the last 7 years). I have yet to find a 'home' in sociology for >> my research or teaching interests. The courses I have taught in socio - >> tech >> & society (co-taught with Barry Wellman) and women & IT (mostly work >> related) and have a different slant/focus than my other courses. >> This is not to say that I don't use soci theories in these >> communications/media classes - I certainly do (and there is overlap) - so >> I >> wonder why sociology (and many depts across the US & Canada) seem so >> distant >> to me (and certainly don't call out to me in job postings)....I've stopped >> going to soci conferences (except for citasa & depending on distance & >> funding) and have looked to other disciplines when thinking about a future >> tenure position. >> Is it just me - or do others feel this same disconnect with sociology? >> Tracy >> >> >> >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> >> Tracy L. M. Kennedy >> PhD Candidate >> Dept of Sociology >> University of Toronto >> >> Course Instructor >> Dept of Communications, Popular Culture & Film Brock University >> >> Research Coordinator >> NetLab >> University of Toronto >> >> Second Life: Professor Tracy >> >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto: >> citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] >> On Behalf Of Andrea Tapia >> Sent: February 3, 2009 8:47 AM >> To: gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il; citasa@list.citasa.org >> Subject: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of technologies stand >> up? >> >> Wow. Double wow. >> >> These questions of mine have generated a lot of discussion yesterday and >> today, both on and off the list. >> >> Thank you! This has spurred me on to think in new ways about what we do >> and >> find new ways to translate it to others! >> >> I think the discussions have been very interesting. So much so, that I >> think >> I'm going to anonymize and aggregate them for everyone to read. I think >> more >> than myself might benefit from the responses. >> >> One line of questions keep popping up. >> >> Why did I exclude this or that? Why did I draw artificial boundaries >> between >> sociology of technology and other things? Wouldn't if be better if "X" >> were >> included? >> >> >> So, I pose a few questions back to the list... >> >> 1. Is the sociology of technology an umbrella term? discipline? That >> others >> fit inside? If so, what fits inside? >> >> 2. If the sociology of technology is just sociology applied to technical >> things--then does the sociology of technology offer anything that overall >> sociology doesn't in terms of theories/methods/etc.? >> >> 3. One author suggested that the sociology of technology exists only in >> the >> overlap of other things. I think this is an intriguing idea. Do you think >> it >> hold water? >> >> 4. Imagine that you found yourself on a six person team. The other >> members >> of the team were an HCI (human-computer interaction) scholar, a scholar of >> communications, an STS (science and technology studies) scholar, a >> sociologist of science/knowledge, and a philosopher of technology. After a >> few beers and some good pizza they all look at you and ask you what you >> add >> to the team that they don't already have. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CITASA mailing list >> CITASA@list.citasa.org >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CITASA mailing list >> CITASA@list.citasa.org >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CITASA mailing listCITASA@list.citasa.orghttp://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > > -- http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com http://www.racismreview.com http://www.homelessyouthservices.org

This is shameful. I applaud you for refusing to change the request. Institutional legitimacy is difficult for small organizations to get and receiving a grant like this would allow you to gain that legitimacy. The tautology of it all is maddening. On Feb 5, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Ryan, Charlotte wrote: > In light of the discussion, > an anecdote might be of interest. > > 1998-99, the Movement and Media Research Action > Project had just completed a multi-year communication > capacity building project with ten Massachusetts-based > community organizing groups, primarily (save one) in communities > that were primarily African American, Afro-Caribbean,Cape Verdean > and Cambodian. > > Our media fellows, almost exclusively women, flagged as a top > priority helping their > groups establish themselves on the internet, and bringing their > surrounding community into > a digital era. We wrote a grant to the Dept of Commerce pitched as > "helping communities of color bridge the digital divide." > > We were rejected although we were urged to resubmit. The change > requested: instead of strong but small organizations in communities > of color, could we find a more institutionalized partner, maybe the > United way. If we resubmit with a more > established, large non-profit, we would very likely succeed. > > We refused.... resulting grant would miss the point. > And the winner of the grant for Massachusetts > The State of Massachusetts Corrections Facilities requesting support > to digitalize prisoners' records. > THis would, given the racial composition of Massachusetts prisons, > "help communities of color bridge the digital divide." > > > > > Char Ryan > charlotte_ryan@uml.edu > > Sociology Department > Center for Family, Work and Community > UMASS - Lowell > > Co-Director > Movement and Media Research Action Project > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org on behalf of Jessie Daniels > Sent: Thu 2/5/2009 8:34 AM > To: Harvey Rich; Emily Noelle Ignacio > Cc: citasa@list.citasa.org > Subject: Re: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of > technologies standup? > > Hi Harvey, Emily, and CITASA folks ~ > > Harvey - I'm just telling you what Pat Collins (ASA president) and > Kareem > (of ASA) told me about organizing the session. Perhaps the rules are > slightly different for an invited/ thematic panel? I'm not sure. > The other > stipulation, as I think you note, is that they couldn't be on the > program > more than twice. So, some of the people doing this sort of work were > already on the program in other invited panels. > > And, Emily - no apology necessary, if anything apologies are all > mine. I > didn't mean to suggest that no sociologists were doing work on > race/gender/class and the Internet, there are as you rightly point > out. > Lori Kendall, has been a pioneer in this area, Emily's work is > exemplary, > and there are new, young scholars such as Tracy Kennedy and Felicia > Su Wong, > who are also doing really interesting work. > > Let me be clear about what I meant in my original post to the list > agreeing > with Tracy about the disconnect between sociology and technology. My > 'subfield,' if you will, within sociology is the study of race/ > gender/class > and I started using technology in the classroom in about the > mid-1990s, so > for me the connections between these two seemed obvious. And, when > Ebo's > 1998 book "Cybertopia or Cyberghetto: Race, Class and Gender on the > Internet," came out, I was optimistic that others saw this > connection too > and that a new field was emerging. Now, ten years later, there are > very > few (a handful really) of sociologists interested in race/class/ > gender that > are equally interested in anything Internet-related. And, most > of the > Internet-related literature I read is not so much focused on these > intersections (again, a few exceptions but not the field as a whole - > especially with regard to race). > > I see this disconnect between sociology and Internet-studies > especially in > my involvement with the journal *Gender & Society* (not sponsored by > ASA, > but by Sociologists for Women in Society), a well-regarded sociology > journal > with an impact factor close to that of *New Media & Society*). I'm > on the > Ed Board and a frequent reviewer. I've approached Dana Britton, the > current editor, several times about putting together a special issue > on > race/class/gender and the Internet, and she tells me again and again > that > there just aren't enough submissions to the journal on this issue to > warrant > a special issue, or even a similary themed regular issue of the > journal. > Her estimate: "maybe in 5 years" there will be enough work in the > area to > warrant a special issue. I ended up editing a special issue of the > journal > recently around Maggie Andersen's work on race/gender/class, but > none of the > contributors - all leaders in the field across a range of ages and > stages of > career (and invited by Britton, not me) - mentioned the Internet as a > significant development in the field in the last 20 years. And, > indeed, > when I submitted my own work to the journal (about cyberfeminism), > they had > trouble even finding reviewers, and then it got rejected as not > 'sociological enough.' I re-submitted the piece to a women's studies > journal > and it got accepted with very minor revisions (coming out this year > in a > special issue on technology in *Women's Studies Quarterly*). > Again, Lori > Kendall's work is the exception here and has appeared in *Gender & > Society,*but there's only a handful of articles that have appeared > there about gender > and the Internet. (TIP for scholars in that subfield and on this > list: > submit your work there and it's likely to get a good review from me! ) > > So, all that is a long way round to say that what seemed to me to be > an > obvious connection in 1998 between one particular subfield in > sociology > (race/class/gender) and Internet studies, has not developed in the > way that > I assumed it would 10 years ago. Perhaps it's different in other > subfields. > > There are, in my opinion, reasons to be hopeful that this will > change, is > changing (like the fact that ASA is organizing several special > sessions on > Internet-related research), but I still see a disconnect to me between > sociology and Internet studies. > > Best, > ~ Jessie > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Harvey Rich <vcsoc001@csun.edu> > wrote: > > > I'm surprised that you were restricted to only members for a > panel. Did > > you actually ask someone at the ASA, or just assume it? Here's > the policy > > taken from the pages of the ASA website (admittedly it took some > doing to > > find): > > > > *The announced Regular Session topics listed in the Call for > Papers are > > open to submission of full papers from members of the Association > **and > > other interested individuals. * > > > > Admittedly, it is the policy of other sociology associations of > which I am > > experienced to require one to join the association if you are > presenting a > > paper. However, the two associations I am most familiar with (PSA > and > > CSA) exempt *panel organizers* from this requirement. Thus, one > can get a > > person from the government or a local charitable organization or > another > > discipline, without requiring them to join the organization. > > > > I can't find anywhere on the website whether or not one must join > the ASA > > if on the program, but I suspect there is no one size fits all > rule. In > > fact, I found a piece, for a CITASA pre-conference and grad student > > conference in July 31, 2008, which says that full papers submitted > to the > > CITASA pre-conference do not count against the limit on the number > of papers > > that an author can present at the regular ASA conference. This > would seem > > to indicate an inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. > > > > I would email the ASA on this and perhaps you can expand your > contributors > > next time you do this at the ASA. > > > > Harvey > > > > > > Jessie Daniels wrote: > > > > Just seconding Tracy's comment about the 'disconnect' within > sociology > > around studying Internet technology, but I remain hopeful that > this may > > change. > > > > I was recently asked by Patricia Hill Collins, incoming ASA > president, to > > organize a thematic session for the 2009 meetings about race, > gender and the > > 'new politics of community' on the Internet. I could pretty > easily think > > of lots of scholars doing interesting work in these areas, but in > order to > > be included on the panel the people needed to be current ASA > members and > > that requirement narrowed the pool of rather dramatically. I > ended up > > including 2 current ASA members, 1 person from outside the field > (political > > science) and 1 person from outside the U.S. (UK) - (and, offered > to sponsor > > the membership of the 2 non-ASA members). > > > > In part, I think this disconnect reflects the fact that the field is > > international and interdisciplinary - both good things in my > view. And > > yet, there's still this 'lag' in terms of sociology's > participation in this > > area of study. As Paul DiMaggio and colleagues pointed out in > their 2001 > > Annual Review of Sociology article, *"sociologists have been slow > to take > > up the challenge of studying the Internet." * It was true in 2001 > and, > > from my view, it continues to be true. Still, I remain hopeful > it's > > changing. > > > > > > ~ Jessie > > > > -- > > http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com > > http://www.racismreview.com > > http://www.homelessyouthservices.org > > > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, T. Kennedy <tkennedy@netwomen.ca> > wrote: > > > >> What about creating a wiki for this discussion? would be > interesting to > >> create a knowledge base for all these interesting tid-bits. > >> > >> I find the discussion interesting, useful & timely. As a PhD > candidate in > >> Sociology, I've been wondering about my place in the discipline; > I teach > >> all > >> of my - cyberculture, digital culture, virtual culture, gaming, > >> info/network > >> society etc etc - in communications, popular culture, film or media > >> studies > >> depts (for the last 7 years). I have yet to find a 'home' in > sociology for > >> my research or teaching interests. The courses I have taught in > socio - > >> tech > >> & society (co-taught with Barry Wellman) and women & IT (mostly > work > >> related) and have a different slant/focus than my other courses. > >> This is not to say that I don't use soci theories in these > >> communications/media classes - I certainly do (and there is > overlap) - so > >> I > >> wonder why sociology (and many depts across the US & Canada) seem > so > >> distant > >> to me (and certainly don't call out to me in job > postings)....I've stopped > >> going to soci conferences (except for citasa & depending on > distance & > >> funding) and have looked to other disciplines when thinking about > a future > >> tenure position. > >> Is it just me - or do others feel this same disconnect with > sociology? > >> Tracy > >> > >> > >> > >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. > >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. > >> > >> Tracy L. M. Kennedy > >> PhD Candidate > >> Dept of Sociology > >> University of Toronto > >> > >> Course Instructor > >> Dept of Communications, Popular Culture & Film Brock University > >> > >> Research Coordinator > >> NetLab > >> University of Toronto > >> > >> Second Life: Professor Tracy > >> > >> ..|::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. > >> |::.|.::|::.|.::|..|::.|.::|::.|.::|.. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org [mailto: > >> citasa-bounces@list.citasa.org] > >> On Behalf Of Andrea Tapia > >> Sent: February 3, 2009 8:47 AM > >> To: gustavo@soc.haifa.ac.il; citasa@list.citasa.org > >> Subject: [CITASA] Take two-Will the real sociology of > technologies stand > >> up? > >> > >> Wow. Double wow. > >> > >> These questions of mine have generated a lot of discussion > yesterday and > >> today, both on and off the list. > >> > >> Thank you! This has spurred me on to think in new ways about what > we do > >> and > >> find new ways to translate it to others! > >> > >> I think the discussions have been very interesting. So much so, > that I > >> think > >> I'm going to anonymize and aggregate them for everyone to read. I > think > >> more > >> than myself might benefit from the responses. > >> > >> One line of questions keep popping up. > >> > >> Why did I exclude this or that? Why did I draw artificial > boundaries > >> between > >> sociology of technology and other things? Wouldn't if be better > if "X" > >> were > >> included? > >> > >> > >> So, I pose a few questions back to the list... > >> > >> 1. Is the sociology of technology an umbrella term? discipline? > That > >> others > >> fit inside? If so, what fits inside? > >> > >> 2. If the sociology of technology is just sociology applied to > technical > >> things--then does the sociology of technology offer anything that > overall > >> sociology doesn't in terms of theories/methods/etc.? > >> > >> 3. One author suggested that the sociology of technology exists > only in > >> the > >> overlap of other things. I think this is an intriguing idea. Do > you think > >> it > >> hold water? > >> > >> 4. Imagine that you found yourself on a six person team. The other > >> members > >> of the team were an HCI (human-computer interaction) scholar, a > scholar of > >> communications, an STS (science and technology studies) scholar, a > >> sociologist of science/knowledge, and a philosopher of > technology. After a > >> few beers and some good pizza they all look at you and ask you > what you > >> add > >> to the team that they don't already have. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CITASA mailing list > >> CITASA@list.citasa.org > >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CITASA mailing list > >> CITASA@list.citasa.org > >> http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CITASA mailing listCITASA@list.citasa.orghttp://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org > > > > > > > -- > http://www.jessiedanielsphd.com > http://www.racismreview.com > http://www.homelessyouthservices.org > > > _______________________________________________ > CITASA mailing list > CITASA@list.citasa.org > http://list.citasa.org/mailman/listinfo/citasa_list.citasa.org Joseph M. Simpson M.S. College of Arts & Sciences Sociology Oklahoma State University josephmsimpson@hotmail.com P to conserve our natural resources, consider the environment before printing this email.