> From: barney <barnwitt@peoplepc.com> > To: Power Catamaran List <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> > Subject: Re: [PCW] Living The Dream > > > Ahoy Brian, > >Could you please tell me the factory name and a way to contact them. I am looking for a sailing cat close to home to look at (Kannapolis, NC). Sounds like this factory with the Ocean Catamaran 48 will do the trick. ANY info. would be greatly appreciated........ _____________________________________________ Brian replied: I have received some number of inquires about the factory visit so I thought I would save some typing and just post this letter I prepared for an individual about the visit and his concerns. Stephen had inquired: I found your web site. Your dissertation and definition of Motor/Sailor reflect my own views exactly. Are you selling designs or do you build as well? I spend 3 to 4 months of the year based/working in Trinidad and am looking for a 42 to 46 ft cat, which I can sail "up the islands" and then hand over to a skippered charter at other times to recoup some of the costs. My son is a yacht skipper and would look after the chartering periods. I've given thought to the compromise between chartering/live-aboard requirements vs sailing performance. Waterline to hull width ratios. Small vs large overhangs etc etc. Haven't reached any conclusions yet. Inclined toward sacrifice some upwind sail performance in order to have more cruising accommodation But still think a high bridgedeck height and plenty of bow buoyancy is a good idea for ocean sailing. Agree with you that bigger engines are the way to go. I reckon 90 to 120 (combined total) hp to try to achieve 8 knots plus continuous, long term motoring speed in a moderate sea. To keep costs reasonable I considered idea of buying used cat and replacing and modernizing saloon topsides. Probably not cost effective. Next option is to have hulls professionally built and outfit ourselves (we are able to do this work but confess we haven't done so before). I looked recently at Australian Schionning Designs, but they appear to be more focused on sailing performance with tight accommodation space and wouldn't charter so easily. Design I have in mind would need to be big enough to include 2 sea berths/quarter berths for skipper and 1 x crew so they don't take up paying client's berth space. Nevertheless I'd want typical "owners" configuaration with 2 double guest berths in one hull and "owners" (1 double berth only ) in other hull. I prefer " galley up". _____________________________________________ Brian had replied: I'm glad you found my dissertation on motorsailers interesting. I have received a very considerable number of complimentary letters. I have some other forum discussions on the subject, to which I have contributed, if you are interested?? It's my intention to do a few custom designs in the 45' plus size. I spent 18 plus years in the multihull business without many opportunities to do design, which is what I originally got into the business for. I do not sell sets of stock designs. I work with other accredited naval architects and our charges are generally 8-10% of the cost of building....pretty reasonable considering the work involved compared to brokerage a vessel. I do not build, but rather can suggest a number of builders around the world, depending upon your adventurous spirit and funds. What size, requirements, and desires might you have in mind?? I've attached another 'motorsailer discussion' that I used as a piece of literature at the Miami Boatshow ______________________________________________ Stephen ask: Thanks for keeping in touch. Yes. Interested....especially if it's a cat which generally conforms to your philosophy on motor/sailers. One technical question regarding construction which you might have some thoughts about: I've observed 2 fundamentally different built concepts concerning the main mouldings which I would imagine has significant implications when considering overall strength and vessel integrity. More usual method (as I understand it) is to mould each hull (lower sections) in one piece then bond hull upper sections to lower sections then link the 2 hull assemblies with the bridge-deck then bond the saloon roof assembly to that. The other method (which I thought might result in greater vessel integrity.... of the kind that occupies ones mind when caught in wild water!!) is to mould bridge deck (ie, the floor) AND the inner halves of each hull in one piece then bond outer halves of each hull along the keel line, then finally attach saloon roof and hull topsides ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ Hello Stephen, I included some of your previous emails above as I thought it might be good to summarize some of our discussions to this point in time, along with my recommendation that you should definitely consider the Ocean Catamaran vessel that I told you I was visiting last weekend. Their website is <www.OceanCatamarans.com> , and they are located very close to Charlestown, SC. In most all respects I think she meets your needs, and without having to go the custom design route, nor the need and expense of building one-off hull molds. Lets start with your most recent questions concerning the two different construction methods. As it turns out she is constructed exactly in the manner you preferred per your email above. I've attached a few photos of the bridge-deck/innerhalf-hull being lay- up via resin infusion, and the outer half of the hull being prepped for the same infusion process. This infusion process goes beyond the traditional hand lay-up most common in small fiberglass shops, and results in a superior strength, lighter-weight hull structure. The vacuum bagging and infusion process ensures that there is not an excess of extra resin in the lay-up, and that all the glass cloth is tightly bound down over the transition edges at the core interfaces. The core material is terminated prior to the joints at the hull's centerline bonding line, and at the deck/hull bonding line. Upon joining together these joints become solid glass after multiple layers of cloth is laid down across the inner surfaces of these joints. And I noted that they properly scarf in these bonding layers. A rubrail is utilized to cover the outerside of the deck hull joint. I did not observe the method used on the hull centerline joint. I did not view the layup of a deck piece, but I was informed that portions of this piece are also resin infused, and there are plans to eventually do much more on this piece. I did have occasion to view a laid-up boat all bonded together and with bulkheads installed. Here I could view the raw glass work on the whole of the inside of the deck piece, and the bonding and taping of the bulkheads in. It all appeared to be done in a proper scarfing method, in a very neat manner, with almost no visible air entrapments (voids), nor unbonded strands of glass. The vinylester resins, layers of quadaxial, triaxial and biaxial E glass, and the core-cell foam are all top quality products for this type of construction. I do have one concern with the construction of the front main bulkhead. They have apparently had no problems in this area, but I would investigate and possible recommend an alternative construction. Per your thoughts on cruising vs. performance hull shapes, note in their website that she carries a fineness ratio of 14 to 1. We've come to believe that the minimum figure for the least wave-making should be no less than 12 to 1. So this vessel should be quite slippery thru the water. There is always a compromise between chartering/live-aboard requirements vs sailing performance, and she has opted for the performance side of cruising for an owner type layout. As a result you don't get the 'roomer-maran' layout of the charter vessels, but the substantial curved flare at the inner deck-hull connection makes the hull accommodations appear wider than usual. She is configured in the stock plans with an owner's hull on one side, and a guest double in the other. I don't see a major problem with reconfiguring this guest hull side into two guest rooms per your thoughts. One of then would likely have to be two berths rather than one large one. In fact I might suggest that that the rear double be configured where it could act as a single double or a twin depending on the charter compliment. Some of the bulkhead locations could be altered without many problems other than having to create new flat panel templates. Your request for a 'galley up' is met in fine style. I might offer some alternatives to the refri/freezer configuration, location, and insulation as a possibility. They seem to have chosen a very reliable Kabota 37 hp diesel engine for power. I think this is fine for an owner, but I would be tempted to go a bit larger for charter work, where meeting schedules is more of a concern. They have outfitted one vessel with an 88 hp unit, and it appears as though they get a very substantial performance increase (18-20 knts). I did not see this installation, but I did see pictures of her wake at speed, and it was surprising her lack of stern squatting. I would definitely want to experience this in person. And I do not know what engine was utilized for the 88 hp, but I would comment that I have always been partial to the 6-cylinder configuration in engines as it is inherently the most naturally balanced configuration. Remember, the smaller engines from which they are extracting ever higher hp are burdened with higher piston speeds, and those speeds combined with balance lessen the engine life…even or more so with hi-compression diesels . The larger hp units fit in with my 'motorsailer' concept that you appreciated so much. I would also suggest you give serious considerations to the very new diesel/electric technologies. Two DC electric motors powered by a single diesel driven DC generator. And this generator can supply the other ship’s other electrical needs (AC, refrig, etc) without the need for a separate generator unit….so 1 diesel engine verses 3. Caution, these units and technology are not cheap at this time! You may have heard of the Solomon's 'electric wheel' work, but I would recommend you read up on the Glacier Bay equipment. I can send you some documents that are not on their website if you like. I have always been impressed with their marine refrig equip, and now they have adopted the most advanced 'total systems approach' to this new propulsion/shipboard technology. An aside to this idea of electric propulsion motors, they could be located in place of the diesel motors that are presently located under the rear berths and generate less heat in these staterooms than the bigger diesels. Or they might well be placed in the steering gear compartment aft of the rear bulkhead. I went on this visit to their facility for several purposes, to see their infusion process, to see their 'kit' idea, and to look at this vessel as a candidate for my mast-aft sailing rig. I would have to spend considerable more time to evaluate the changes needed to adapt my sailing rig. And primarily this is because of the location/configuration of their salon entranceway and the bulkhead arrangement in that area. It could be done, but it would probably involve considerable modifications and thus expense. I believe they have a very nice standard rig setup and manufacturer, and its dimensions are suited to the intercoastal waterway. So I would not recommend changing that unless you were really interested in doing so. I do have some other recommended changes I would make to their std vessel, but I won't innumerate them here...best left for advanced discussions. Finally addressing your other thought, "Next option is to have hulls professionally built and outfit ourselves (we are able to do this work but confess we haven't done so before)." I quote from their website under 'Owner Build Plan', "We currently offer the Ocean Cat 48.8 in any stage of construction; pricing reflects the finished condition. We also offer on site facilities for you to finish your boat with factory supervision should you choose this option." I suggest you pay a visit to their shop, see their operation, see some partially completed vessels, and talk with Don Olson. I don't know of another vessel out there if this quality that can be purchased in various stages of construction. And if you run into problems finishing it out yourself, they have some folks that can do that....constructing the interior modules, carpentry, and glassing them in. You might reserve for yourself some of the equip installation, and finishing off the interior surfaces of the fiberglass. They have some very nice finishes for these surfaces that don't involve complicated panel installation, etc, but rather owner applied spray or paint ons. And they look very acceptable. If you become interested in this idea I would visit with Don soon and put down at least a tentative deposit to secure a building slot. You could always sell this building slot off if something comes up. I think they are going to get real busy with this program, so if you want a boat anytime reasonably soon, get going. Regards, Brian Attached: Photos of infusion, shop, interior Glacier Bay articles Brian Eiland beiland@usa.net http://www.RunningTideYachts.com distinctive multihull expedition yachts