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TWL: Wooden boat maintenance

A
alexjodi@hotmail.com
Mon, Jun 5, 2000 7:26 AM

My wife and I are moving up in size and are looking for a live-a-board boat.
We have found a nice 1972 49' American Marine Alaskan, however, the hull
is wood.  I have heard different opinions on the amount of maintenance,
cost, and time required to keep the hull in solid working order.  I guess my
question is, is it worth it?  Our plans call for us cruising the southeast,
florida, and carribean waters, where I hear also the climate is poor for
wood boats as well.  If anyone has any recommendations or advise all is
appreciated in our decision-making.


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My wife and I are moving up in size and are looking for a live-a-board boat. We have found a nice 1972 49' American Marine Alaskan, however, the hull is wood. I have heard different opinions on the amount of maintenance, cost, and time required to keep the hull in solid working order. I guess my question is, is it worth it? Our plans call for us cruising the southeast, florida, and carribean waters, where I hear also the climate is poor for wood boats as well. If anyone has any recommendations or advise all is appreciated in our decision-making. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
A
arider@bellsouth.net
Mon, Jun 5, 2000 2:15 PM

You ask, is it worth it?
Wood boats do require more maintenance....period.  I have owned three wood
boats and even when you have restored or completed the new bottom or
topsides, you must constantly maintain a vigil to be sure that what you have
done......stays done.
If you are unable to step up in size because of the initial cost of other
types of hulls, you probably won't have the available cash to either correct
previous problems or maintain wooden boats higher cost to keep above the
water.
Keep in mind....if you have never owned a wood boat....you will have to
learn and practice many new things.
Back to ....is it worth it ?.......to each his own !
They are very seaworthy and beautiful boats but there are several reasons,
including the fact that wood must be replaced at some time, that most
manufacturers stopped building wood hulls.
I loved the wood boats that I had and they served their purpose....I also
loved to work with wood.(notice past tense)
I will never own a wooden hull again but I do own two steel hull Chris Craft
Roamers(no soft wood in my bottom again) with all wooden cabins. ( The
newest has the cabins and decks glassed over)
Steel hulls.....well that's another subject altogether.

Bob &  Jeannie Clinkenbeard

To accomplish a great task you must act....and dream.

TWIN SCREWS an Enterprise * 1964 Chris Craft Roamer 56
Photos  http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=163724&a=1673119

----- Original Message -----
From: alex findlay alexjodi@hotmail.com
To: trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 3:26 AM
Subject: TWL: Wooden boat maintenance

My wife and I are moving up in size and are looking for a live-a-board

boat.

We have found a nice 1972 49' American Marine Alaskan, however, the hull
is wood.  I have heard different opinions on the amount of maintenance,
cost, and time required to keep the hull in solid working order.  I guess

my

question is, is it worth it?  Our plans call for us cruising the

southeast,

florida, and carribean waters, where I hear also the climate is poor for
wood boats as well.  If anyone has any recommendations or advise all is
appreciated in our decision-making.

You ask, is it worth it? Wood boats do require more maintenance....period. I have owned three wood boats and even when you have restored or completed the new bottom or topsides, you must constantly maintain a vigil to be sure that what you have done......stays done. If you are unable to step up in size because of the initial cost of other types of hulls, you probably won't have the available cash to either correct previous problems or maintain wooden boats higher cost to keep above the water. Keep in mind....if you have never owned a wood boat....you will have to learn and practice many new things. Back to ....is it worth it ?.......to each his own ! They are very seaworthy and beautiful boats but there are several reasons, including the fact that wood must be replaced at some time, that most manufacturers stopped building wood hulls. I loved the wood boats that I had and they served their purpose....I also loved to work with wood.(notice past tense) I will never own a wooden hull again but I do own two steel hull Chris Craft Roamers(no soft wood in my bottom again) with all wooden cabins. ( The newest has the cabins and decks glassed over) Steel hulls.....well that's another subject altogether. Bob & Jeannie Clinkenbeard To accomplish a great task you must act....and dream. TWIN SCREWS an Enterprise * 1964 Chris Craft Roamer 56 Photos http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=163724&a=1673119 ----- Original Message ----- From: alex findlay <alexjodi@hotmail.com> To: <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 3:26 AM Subject: TWL: Wooden boat maintenance > My wife and I are moving up in size and are looking for a live-a-board boat. > We have found a nice 1972 49' American Marine Alaskan, however, the hull > is wood. I have heard different opinions on the amount of maintenance, > cost, and time required to keep the hull in solid working order. I guess my > question is, is it worth it? Our plans call for us cruising the southeast, > florida, and carribean waters, where I hear also the climate is poor for > wood boats as well. If anyone has any recommendations or advise all is > appreciated in our decision-making.
A
arider@bellsouth.net
Mon, Jun 5, 2000 9:16 PM

To add one more note on wood hulls.......the following is a reply post on a
Chris Craft site I also belong to.  It says more than I could ever say about
wood hulls and removing a lot of planks from a big
cruiser.................BTW it does not include, how to put them back.

anonymous expert poster says....
"Phil, here's some ideas.  Hang on, it's not going to be easy.
First, you will probably need to wood the hull to expose all of the filled
screw holes.  I take a 5/16" or 3/8" Forstner bit and dull and narrow the
centering tip on a grinder.  This prevents damage to the screw's slot cross.
It is still pretty easy to center up on the screw.  I use the Forstner bit
to drill out the old white lead filler in the screw holes.  The modified tip
will center in but not damage the crosses.  Then I use small ice pick type
tools to clean out the Reed and Prince or Frearson phillips crosses in the
screw heads.  Now, hopefully you can back 'em out using the correct size
Frearson or Reed and Prince bit.  A lot depends on if you want to, or can,
reuse the wood or not.  If they break off, you can use the roll pin type
extractor tools.  If they strip, you can use left handed drills, the roll
pin
extractor tools in a two step process, or use an oversize plug cutter, or
even a body grinder to the screw heads so that you can rip the whole plank
off and take the whole mess out depending upon how brutal of a mood you are
in that day.
I have been tempted to just take a saw to large areas of the hull, keeping
structural integrity in mind, of course.  This means that you would be
cutting out frames and auxiliary frames, and battens.  Then you will have to
bare back more structure, and you will have to sister things back together.
Better yet, remove the toe rails, gunwales, and side deck covering boards to
expose the Shear Shelf.  Now you can unscrew the frames and knees from the
top.  You will also have to uncover the chine area and cut the frame loose
from the bottom frame knee or gusset.  Then you can have the frame out to
use
for a pattern if you need to make a new one.
Around the edges of the effected area, you can hopefully find a nearby plank
end.  Since CC used pretty long planks wherever possible, you will probably
have to bare back more planking.  This means taking out a lot more screws
than you really needed to so that you can pull the plank up and away from
the
rest of the hull and use a guide board to cut it off straight and maybe with
a beveled edge.  This will prevent you from cutting the battens off and
having their edge be even with the cut off plank edge.  Then if you need to
replace the battens, their ends are exposed for grafting.  Sometimes I stair
step the battens with a router before I cut them off.
I use a screw driver under the plank end to bridge across the still fastened
planks on the hull to hold the plank up and away while I cut.  It's a barrel
of fun.  Another method is to use a 45 degree bit in your router set deep
enough to cut the plank and use a guide edge and just cut away.  This means
that you will either have to chisel out the last bits at the edges, or route
on into the plank that you don't want to cut off and patch it later.  Then
after replacing any frames and battens that need attention, you can glue and
screw in new planks using butt blocks.  I would liberally coat everything
with Smith's CPES before assembly, especially the end grains and any thing
that forms a pocket.  It is MY OPINION that you should NOT use 5200 in these
areas."

Enough said

Bob &  Jeannie Clinkenbeard

To accomplish a great task you must act....and dream.

TWIN SCREWS an Enterprise * 1964 Chris Craft Roamer 56
Photos  http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=163724&a=1673119

To add one more note on wood hulls.......the following is a reply post on a Chris Craft site I also belong to. It says more than I could ever say about wood hulls and removing a lot of planks from a big cruiser.................BTW it does not include, how to put them back. anonymous expert poster says.... "Phil, here's some ideas. Hang on, it's not going to be easy. First, you will probably need to wood the hull to expose all of the filled screw holes. I take a 5/16" or 3/8" Forstner bit and dull and narrow the centering tip on a grinder. This prevents damage to the screw's slot cross. It is still pretty easy to center up on the screw. I use the Forstner bit to drill out the old white lead filler in the screw holes. The modified tip will center in but not damage the crosses. Then I use small ice pick type tools to clean out the Reed and Prince or Frearson phillips crosses in the screw heads. Now, hopefully you can back 'em out using the correct size Frearson or Reed and Prince bit. A lot depends on if you want to, or can, reuse the wood or not. If they break off, you can use the roll pin type extractor tools. If they strip, you can use left handed drills, the roll pin extractor tools in a two step process, or use an oversize plug cutter, or even a body grinder to the screw heads so that you can rip the whole plank off and take the whole mess out depending upon how brutal of a mood you are in that day. I have been tempted to just take a saw to large areas of the hull, keeping structural integrity in mind, of course. This means that you would be cutting out frames and auxiliary frames, and battens. Then you will have to bare back more structure, and you will have to sister things back together. Better yet, remove the toe rails, gunwales, and side deck covering boards to expose the Shear Shelf. Now you can unscrew the frames and knees from the top. You will also have to uncover the chine area and cut the frame loose from the bottom frame knee or gusset. Then you can have the frame out to use for a pattern if you need to make a new one. Around the edges of the effected area, you can hopefully find a nearby plank end. Since CC used pretty long planks wherever possible, you will probably have to bare back more planking. This means taking out a lot more screws than you really needed to so that you can pull the plank up and away from the rest of the hull and use a guide board to cut it off straight and maybe with a beveled edge. This will prevent you from cutting the battens off and having their edge be even with the cut off plank edge. Then if you need to replace the battens, their ends are exposed for grafting. Sometimes I stair step the battens with a router before I cut them off. I use a screw driver under the plank end to bridge across the still fastened planks on the hull to hold the plank up and away while I cut. It's a barrel of fun. Another method is to use a 45 degree bit in your router set deep enough to cut the plank and use a guide edge and just cut away. This means that you will either have to chisel out the last bits at the edges, or route on into the plank that you don't want to cut off and patch it later. Then after replacing any frames and battens that need attention, you can glue and screw in new planks using butt blocks. I would liberally coat everything with Smith's CPES before assembly, especially the end grains and any thing that forms a pocket. It is MY OPINION that you should NOT use 5200 in these areas." Enough said Bob & Jeannie Clinkenbeard To accomplish a great task you must act....and dream. TWIN SCREWS an Enterprise * 1964 Chris Craft Roamer 56 Photos http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=163724&a=1673119
J
jhamlin@northernway.net
Tue, Jun 6, 2000 7:12 AM

Couldn't help responding, Alex, since I owned 5 wooden boats over the
past 15 years.  You ask "is it worth it?"  Depends on:

  • The $$ difference between the Alaskan and a plastic something
    having    the same capabilities & accomodations.  I disagree with a
    previous    post that said maintenance cost needs to be significantly
    higher.
  • Your interest and capability in maintaining a wood boat.  Will you
    enjoy this as a "labor of love", or be constantly cussing about having
    to replace some wood or add a coat of paint?  Sure, you're going to
    have to keep paint on her, but that's it!  Every 3 years, paint the
    hull in add'n to a bottom-job - not alot more labor than cleaning up
    chalked glass and waxing a glass hull with a buffer.  I've been in the
    yards, I know! Biggest maint. areas will be above the water-line.

Our last woodie was a '71 36 Grand Banks, wonderfully maintained during
most of her life.  Just sold her last month, and will be buying
bigger.  Solid bottom & hull, decent decks and ok superstructure.  Had
this boat for 4 years, travelling 3,000 miles, and spent less than 1%
annually on hull/exterior maintenance.  BUT - I did some amount of wood
repair/replacement myself.  VERY reasonable, if you're willing to engage
in woodwork periodically.

If you like the sounds of advice like this and really like the boat, go
ahead & make an offer contingent on survey.  For a wooden boat, the
surveyor you choose will be critical.  You MUST find one that has strong
references from previous clients, or must otherwise determine his
reputation with wooden boats.  (I can give you a name in the Ft. Myers
area if that would help)  You want someone who knows instinctively where
to find rotted wood.  This isn't brain surgery, but a "tupperware"
surveyor normally won't have a clue where to look.  For example, GB
woodies are famous for soaked, rotted wood under any of the windows
(frames too).

When you come down to it, glass CAN be an even bigger headache.  Ie.,
what would it cost to fix severe hull blisters?  How many months lay-up
& lost cruising time needed to dry the hull out?  I've always said that
if a manufacturer ever made a trawler with a wooden bottom & glass
sides, I'd be the 1st one there with check in hand!  Putting a $20.00
worm-board on the keel takes care of worms for 5 to 8 years, assuming
you keep decent anti-fouling on the bottom.

Wife & I will be looking for a used trawler soon as the house sells, and
I definitely won't be discounting the possibility of another woodie -
simply because they're a better all-around value, IF you're willing to
keep her up.  And sure, if you have the big bucks, go ahead and spring
for that new $1.2 mil glass Defever or Krogen!  Hope this helps, and
good luck . . .

PS: do NOT plan to "fix up" a 49 Alaskan if you find extensive dry-rot
in the hull - it could take years to catch up with her . . .

Jim & Jan Hamlin,
Boatless for Now

Couldn't help responding, Alex, since I owned 5 wooden boats over the past 15 years. You ask "is it worth it?" Depends on: * The $$ difference between the Alaskan and a plastic something having the same capabilities & accomodations. I disagree with a previous post that said maintenance cost needs to be significantly higher. * Your interest and capability in maintaining a wood boat. Will you enjoy this as a "labor of love", or be constantly cussing about having to replace some wood or add a coat of paint? Sure, you're going to have to keep paint on her, but that's it! Every 3 years, paint the hull in add'n to a bottom-job - not alot more labor than cleaning up chalked glass and waxing a glass hull with a buffer. I've been in the yards, I know! Biggest maint. areas will be above the water-line. Our last woodie was a '71 36 Grand Banks, wonderfully maintained during most of her life. Just sold her last month, and will be buying bigger. Solid bottom & hull, decent decks and ok superstructure. Had this boat for 4 years, travelling 3,000 miles, and spent less than 1% annually on hull/exterior maintenance. BUT - I did some amount of wood repair/replacement myself. VERY reasonable, if you're willing to engage in woodwork periodically. If you like the sounds of advice like this and really like the boat, go ahead & make an offer contingent on survey. For a wooden boat, the surveyor you choose will be critical. You MUST find one that has strong references from previous clients, or must otherwise determine his reputation with wooden boats. (I can give you a name in the Ft. Myers area if that would help) You want someone who knows instinctively where to find rotted wood. This isn't brain surgery, but a "tupperware" surveyor normally won't have a clue where to look. For example, GB woodies are famous for soaked, rotted wood under any of the windows (frames too). When you come down to it, glass CAN be an even bigger headache. Ie., what would it cost to fix severe hull blisters? How many months lay-up & lost cruising time needed to dry the hull out? I've always said that if a manufacturer ever made a trawler with a wooden bottom & glass sides, I'd be the 1st one there with check in hand! Putting a $20.00 worm-board on the keel takes care of worms for 5 to 8 years, assuming you keep decent anti-fouling on the bottom. Wife & I will be looking for a used trawler soon as the house sells, and I definitely won't be discounting the possibility of another woodie - simply because they're a better all-around value, IF you're willing to keep her up. And sure, if you have the big bucks, go ahead and spring for that new $1.2 mil glass Defever or Krogen! Hope this helps, and good luck . . . PS: do NOT plan to "fix up" a 49 Alaskan if you find extensive dry-rot in the hull - it could take years to catch up with her . . . Jim & Jan Hamlin, Boatless for Now
Y
yourcaptain@earthlink.net
Tue, Jun 6, 2000 2:31 PM

At 12:12 AM 6/6/00 -0700, you wrote:

Couldn't help responding, Alex, since I owned 5 wooden boats over the
past 15 years.  You ask "is it worth it?"

  • Your interest and capability in maintaining a wood boat.  Will you
    enjoy this as a "labor of love", or be constantly cussing about having
    to replace some wood or add a coat of paint?  BUT - I did some amount of

wood

repair/replacement myself.  VERY reasonable, if you're willing to engage
in woodwork periodically.

If you like the sounds of advice like this and really like the boat, go
ahead & make an offer contingent on survey.  For a wooden boat, the
surveyor you choose will be critical.
surveyor normally won't have a clue where to look.  For example, GB
woodies are famous for soaked, rotted wood under any of the windows
(frames too).

IF you're willing to

keep her up.  And sure, if you have the big bucks, go ahead and spring
for that new glass Defever or Krogen!  Hope this helps, and
good luck . . .

PS: do NOT plan to "fix up" a 49 Alaskan if you find extensive dry-rot
in the hull - it could take years to catch up with her . . .

Jim & Jan Hamlin,
Boatless for Now

---===========================
Jim I did a lot of clipping to your post.

Are you looking for a labor of love or a boat to go cruising??
Your estimate of purchasing a used glass boat is a bit over blown by about
a $1,000,000.
I'll bet your next boat will be glass. Just think about all that labor of
love you will be missing that you enjoy so much.

After you buy it please tell me I'm wrong.
.

Captain Al Pilvinis

"M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47
2630 N.E. 41st Street
Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064
Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666
Email  yourcaptain@earthlink.net
Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain

At 12:12 AM 6/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >Couldn't help responding, Alex, since I owned 5 wooden boats over the >past 15 years. You ask "is it worth it?" >* Your interest and capability in maintaining a wood boat. Will you >enjoy this as a "labor of love", or be constantly cussing about having >to replace some wood or add a coat of paint? BUT - I did some amount of wood >repair/replacement myself. VERY reasonable, if you're willing to engage >in woodwork periodically. > >If you like the sounds of advice like this and really like the boat, go >ahead & make an offer contingent on survey. For a wooden boat, the >surveyor you choose will be critical. >surveyor normally won't have a clue where to look. For example, GB >woodies are famous for soaked, rotted wood under any of the windows >(frames too). > IF you're willing to >keep her up. And sure, if you have the big bucks, go ahead and spring >for that new glass Defever or Krogen! Hope this helps, and >good luck . . . > >PS: do NOT plan to "fix up" a 49 Alaskan if you find extensive dry-rot >in the hull - it could take years to catch up with her . . . > >Jim & Jan Hamlin, >Boatless for Now ============================================================ Jim I did a lot of clipping to your post. Are you looking for a labor of love or a boat to go cruising?? Your estimate of purchasing a used glass boat is a bit over blown by about a $1,000,000. I'll bet your next boat will be glass. Just think about all that labor of love you will be missing that you enjoy so much. After you buy it please tell me I'm wrong. . Captain Al Pilvinis "M/V Driftwood"--Prairie 47 2630 N.E. 41st Street Lighthouse Point, Fl 33064-8064 Voice 954-941-2556 Fax 954 788-2666 Email yourcaptain@earthlink.net Website http://home.earthlink.net/~yourcaptain