Coastal Cat 34
Bert,
You've made an astute observation (below) about the Coastal Cat 34 power cat,
that's equally applicable to other "pocket-cruiser" cats. Adding a diesel
genset (or switching from outboard motors to twin diesels as the main
propulsion system) is at odds with the boat's basic (and admirable) "KISS"
concept: Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Or, as you more articulately put it, Bert: "...an elegant alternative to
complex boats."
As a cat dealer I can pass on some "rule-of-thumb" financial observations
relevant to this discussion of gensets or more expensive engines (and optional
equipment).
For one, in the past 10 years my company has NEVER sold a cat under 38' feet
that was equipped with a genset, be it diesel OR gas. Not that we wouldn't, or
couldn't -- rather, the buyers of what I call "pocket-cruising cats" are
especially price sensitive. And thus the cost of a diesel genset is out of
proportion to the overall cost spent for the boat. That's also why diesel
propulsion engines for a boat this price don't make sense. (First and
foremost, it would no longer be a boat "this price" -- it'd be appreciably
more expensive. And once the boat is more expensive, there's an immediate
upward spiral in the amount spent for all other elements of the boat, too --
and not just the options.)
As a peripheral observation, this is why there is a strong parallel between
lower and higher-priced cats when it comes to the amount their respective
buyers spend on "optional equipment." This "add-on" sum is remarkably
consistent, whether our clients purchase a $200K cat, or a $1M cat.
12% of the base-boat's price -- that's the average MINIMUM sum that new-cat
buyers spend for optional equipment. That means the $200K cat buyer is going
to request, on average, that AT LEAST $24,000 of optional equipment be added
to his new boat. In like fashion, the buyer of the $1M cat is (on average)
going to have AT LEAST $120,000 added to it. Please note -- those are the
MINIMUM figures. The AVERAGE sum spent for the initially ordered optional
equipment is between 14% to 17%. (Again, this is for equipment that the BUYER
decides to have added at the beginning.) At the upper end of added optional
equipt., it's not unknown for a buyer to add 25%, even 35% above the base
price of the boat. (In that instance, the $300K boat will have
heat-and-air-conditioning, fridge AND freezer, etc. And the $1M cat will have
multiple air-conditioning systems, an 11 Kw genset, hydraunic heating,
multiple HD flat-screen TVs, satellite telephone, and probably a 13' tender
with a 100-HP water-jet motor.)
To be even more precise, whatever sum new-cat buyers have initially planned to
add in options to their boat -- that figure usually rises another 5% to 10%
AFTER they've signed for the boat and paid their deposit. (This is even more
common among lower priced than higher priced new boats.) I think of it as the
"hot bath" syndrome. Few plunge right in. But after first inserting a toe, and
then getting knee deep, the inevitability of "greater immersion" occurs.
But, getting back to the original question about a genset -- given that the
cost of an installed, 4Kw diesel genset is about $12K to $16K (and that's if
diesel tanks already exist in the boat), adding a diesel genset to a Coastal
Cat 34 would immediately use up about 6% to 8% of the average "options
budget." And that means either sacrificing more important basic options . .
.or putting too much equipment on that size/price boat. (Of course, if "price
is no matter", then all this info is moot!)
This is the reason why the buyer of a $200K or $300K cat very seldom adds a
genset -- while the buyer of the $1M cat, who will usually spend about $150K
in options, will ALWAYS add a genset.
How is that $24K "minimum" options package spent for the hypothetical $200K
boat? Typically for basic electronics (speed/depth/autopilot, VHF radio,
AM/FM/CD -- although the latter is quickly going by the wayside in preference
for an i-Pod-type system), refrigeration, dinghy/ob, ground-tackle,
dock-lines/fenders, C.G. safety package (PFDs, extinguishers, sight-n-sound
signals, etc.) The $300K boat will very likely add an electric windlass. And
radar. (I know I'd add radar. And, depending on the boat's usage, I might add
radar to a $200K boat, too.)
To get even more arcane about money matters: I always warn new-boat buyers
about RESALE realities. Production-built sail-cruising cats have been around
longer and in greater numbers than have their power-cat sisters. So we have
more long-term data on the former. One basic fact is this: Just about all
production built, sail-cruising cats of 5 to 30 years old are reselling for
what the original owner paid. (a) A 1985, 32' Gemini that sold for $50,000
new, will sell today (in good condtion, and having NOT been in charter) for
about $48K to $52K. (b) A 1990 Privilege 39' (among the best-quality sailing
cats of that size that you could buy in '90), that sold then for about $210K,
will sell today (again, if in good condtion and having NOT been in charter)
for about $190K to $220K.
But, is that "no-loss resale value" true for POWER cats, too? Well, we don't
have nearly as large of a historical record from which to make as firm of a
statement. Production=built power cats are a much newer segment of the boating
market. And it's important to note that in some large power cats (usually
high-speed models), the cost of the engines are a much higher proportion of
the overall base-boat price. In that instance, I'm going to guess that the
resale will not be as strong because the worn engines lose value, and if they
started out as an appreciable part of the boat's initial cost, that diminishes
the used cat's price...just as in high-powered monohull power boats.
However, in the more common instance of power cruising cats with smaller
diesels (say 100 to 200 HP...although again, this is a very rough estimate),
the resale strength is probably stronger. The initial cost of the boat isn't
predicated so much upon the cost of the engines, hence the aging of the
engines has less impact on resale price.
You probably see where I'm going -- by this rationale, we can predict that the
resale value of outboard-powered power cats (IF the outboards are small, and
thus not very expensive)...the overall resale value of the boat will remain
especially high.
Which leads me to a related RESALE consideration. While the resale value of
sail-cruising cats MATCHES the boat's initial price, the addition of optional
equipment is NOT as pretty of a picture. In fact, optional equipment
depreciates (roughly) at about 20% per YEAR. Thus, your 5-year-old inflatable
dinghy, or 5-year-old radar, have VERY-LITTLE-to-NO value come resale time.
(Exception? If a few same-year/same-model used boats are on the market, and if
they're of comparable quality, then the one with more equipment will probably
sell faster. But it's not likely to sell for a higher price -- just sell
quicker.)
So, as a general rule, do NOT load a modest priced boat with EXPENSIVE
optional equipment. You will NOT get much, if any, of the money back at resale
time that you spent on options a few years earlier.
On a separate note: If Bob Austin's suggestion that modern, 4-cycle outboards
may have a 4,000 to 8,000 hour life is true, that puts an even stronger
recommendation for their use on "small" cats (say under about 36'). The old
rule-of-thumb (for 2-cycles) used to be about 600 to 1,000 hours before a
rebuild was necessary. Conversely, I've been told that the diesel engines in
larger cats (40' to 60') in charter in the Caribbean are often replaced after
as little as 3,500 to 4,000 hours use.
But that's an entirely different topic . . .
Rod Gibbons
Cruising Cats USA
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:18:04 -1000
From: "Noelle Harrott" harrott@hawaii.rr.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] gas outboards
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 001c01c89cb0$684f8c40$6401a8c0@noelle
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I couldn't disagree more with the idea of complicating a simple and workable
concept such as the outboard powered Prowler with the addition of a diesel
gen-set. There is beauty in its simplicity.
Adding an entire fuel system, tankage, exhaust and a heavier diesel
generator to a design which exudes simplicity is counterproductive. .
While small diesels have their merits, initial cost, maintenance and the
disproportionate expense of the composite outdrives spiral the acquisition
costs beyond many boaters' means.
While the diesel's legs may be raised to allow shallow water boating and
beaching, the advantages of having the outboard motors and their mounting
brackets completely out of the water, as they appear to be on the Prowler,
will be appreciated by owners who have dealt with corrosion issues in their
marinas.
The Prowler is an elegant alternative to complex boats. If a prospective
buyer seeks "more" then there certainly are other boats on the market.
Regards, Bert Harrott