I agree w/ Dan.

I just bought a Nissan 4 stroke 9.8 Outboard.  The Dealer was very helpful.

The 1st one never left the dealer w/ me, as it had a broken linkage part.

The 2nd one did leave w/ me, onlt to have the pull cord eat itself; I removed
the recoil unit and we exchanged by mail.

But the real problem is this.

In order to reduce the weight, they (by their own admission) opted to have a
tilt bracket similar to one you might find on a 2.2hp.

In other words it will not lock in position, it simply rests there.

So towing the dinghy w/ the engine on cannot be done as the engine slams down
with the smallest of wave motion.

Also, I store the dinghy on top of a dock and I installed a trailer roller to
make the "haul up" easier.

Well I can't pull the dinghy up, w/o the engine slaming down.

If I try to pull up the dinghy w/ the engine in the down position, it
essentially dips the engine into the brine!

Now to the point of customer service.

I called Texas, where Nissan (a division of Tohatsu, evidently) and spoke w/
Garland Lewis head of "Service"

Total indifference to not only my initial quality control problems, but also
to this design flaw (in my estimation)

He totoally agreed that w/ their design, the engine will flop down.  He told
me that had I read the owners manual prior to buying the engine, I would have
known this as the manual states that you cannot do this...

I replied they should install a large sticker to this effect, and had I seen
it, I would not have bought the motor.

These engines are too heavy to lift up on to the stern rail of our sailboat,
I don't think the stern rail would appreciate it either!

Our previous engine was a Honda 8, which we towed on the dinghy for 10 yrs in
Buzzard's Bay, MA w/o a single incident, despite some wild weather.

I suggested that anyone remotely plugged into boating would know that the
ability to tow a dinghy w/ the engine on is a very common practice.

I explained that given this design (flaw) I could not use this engine and
accordingly I asked him to auhtorize the dealer to refund my money, which he
refused.

He was never rude, just incredibly indifferent.

I hope he gets "puddled" on a daily basis and further wish the most annoying
of gremilns upon him!!

John Edwards

NEO
86 Cal 33
89 Cape Dory Flybridge

Well, your story has taught me something. I will now treasure those
companies that have their manuals online and downloadable. It would never
have occured to me that part of the buying process must include reading the
manual! I do it with electronics, but an outboard - I don't think so.

Ron Rogers

I have been in the retail business since the early 70's, huge chains and
single stores. Also wholesale distribution to small retailers. Most of that
in the electronics biz with its low margins, continual deflation and short
product life cycles. Very little margin for error, which is why you see the
continual turn over of chains going in but now mostly out, of business. But
my comments apply to all sorts of retailers and product vendors. My
opinions derived from my experience (bear with me there may be omething of
use towards the end of this):

The thrivers (not merely the survivors) are distinguished by a few
characteristics:

1. they are able to stake out a clear position in the market place (long
   explanation needed for how you do that). Might be based on price,
   selection, quality, convenience, degree of personalization for each
   customer, etc.
2. They consistently meet their customer's expectations of them, based on
   that easily understood position.The important word is consistently. The
   customer forms a clear vision of what to expect when they trade with that
   company, from the initial shopping processs through the ownership
   experience with the product.  Every now and then, the winners an find the
   opportunity to exceed those set customer expectations.

The very best companies, with the highest customer loyalty, are fanatical
about establishing and meeting expectations.  It requires fanatacism,
because front line workers seldom come to you self-imbued with
understanding what it takes.
Logically,  hiring practices are another area of fanatacism required for
greatness. You need to understand the type of personality required to
execute the plan, and be the type of person your customers expect to deal
with. Prior experience and depth of knowledge can be bad things when
accompanied by bad habits and worse attitude. A condescending jerk of an
expert will do a lot more damage than a tyro who is sincerely interested in
helping you. There lots of ways to enable the tyro to go get the right
facts.

The very best companies realize that a customer with a problem is the best
and cheapest opportunity to grow their sales. That's right. By really
exceeding expectations when there is a problem, you generate the most
powerful salesperson of all: a delighted customer. Delighted because you
were really there for them when things were tough, and you were going to
have to do something that was going to "cost" you.  Yes there are crooks
and jerks out there who won't serve any long term benefit to your business.
But spending too much effort sorting who is who is seldom worth it, you
inevetably disserve the innocent.

It really doesn't go any deeper than that. I have made my version of a
living in "turn around" situations, or in helping businesses expand. Once a
company has established a reputation of not meeting expectations, of being
inconsistent they are usually beyond turning around. A very deep war chest
is necessary.

So now look at what Apex, Evolution and Nissan have accomplished. Instead
of growing their sales, they have decided to cap them. Yeah maybe Apex is
technically in the "right". So what?
Think of the advocate they would have in Dan if they had apologized
profusely and immediately shipped him new seats via expedited freight the
minute they heard from him, not waiting for their stuff back and thrown
some kind of extra trinket for his trouble? I guarantee you they would have
sold one more boat than otherwise this year and several more in the years
to come. Now they will likely sell at least one fewer boat.
And maybe with, but now without, a Nissan outboard.

So for those of you who have indulged me and read this far, how  is this
long sermon of value to you the consumer?

1. maybe one of the vendors who read this list will have a light bulb go
   off as a result of reading this.
2. do not be shy about venting your issues to the vendor. The guy at "the
   top" may have no clue that an individual  on the front line is killing his
   business. He should have a clue no matter how big the company, but maybe
   he's new or just got transferred to that region . The most deadly customer
   is the one who just leaves and never comes back, and walks the earth bad
   mouthing your company.  If a customer feels a vendor has earned the
   ultimate punishment, that's it.  But if you really wish they could be
   better ( they are handy to you, you like or outright need their product,
   etc.) then speak up!
3. As importantly, become an advocate for the folks who do it right. Their
   sales will grow and their competition will likely notice that. Plus, they
   are people like any of us, a little recognition for one's extra efforts
   generates more extra efforts.
4. It is especially important to pass compliments to upper management when
   you get great service from an employee. I cannot over emphasize this. Make
   sure you also compliment the employee directly. They cherish that, if you
   write a letter almost always they will keep it a long time.
   And the other employees will take notice and learn by example.
   FWIW, INMNSHO, etc.

George

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"Port Supply (West Marine) they have strived to do all of these things, but
I
still see them bashed on a regular basis"

Well Dick, you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Sol Price was one of the great innovaters in retailing, among other things
the inventor of the wholesales warehouse club (now Costco), and the guy Sam
Walton thought was the smartest merchant he ever met (and who Sam copied
relentlessly). He had a saying, "the intelligent loss of business". Now
this fellow was the all time champ when it came to creating extremely high
volume stores. He did that in part by not trying to be all things to all
people.
There are people who complain that there is no one who will wait on them at
Costco or Sam's. They might complain that things aren't available in
smaller sizes or bigger variety. By not pleasing those people, those stores
do huge volume by delivering great value, and as those of you who shop at
the "clubs", they an afford to surprise you every now and then, usually
with some unusual merchandise offer.
If Port Supply stays true to itself and there are enough customers like you
who like their offer, they'll do ok.
The vagaries of sourcing products and delivering them at low prices will
have to await a dissertation on my next extended travel day. Will include
my "why I keep my company out of the marine products business" speech.

George

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We have a 23 year old 2 H.P. Mariner outboard that is still giving
excellent service after all those years. Parts are still readily availible.
No connection with Mariner, but a very satisfied  customer. Maybe if the
Japanese built the space shuttles there would be no mechanical problems.

Ralph Salerno
M/V ANCORA
San Diego