volt-nuts@lists.febo.com

Discussion of precise voltage measurement

View all threads

...a guide to buying the HP/Agilent 3458A

MS
Mark Sims
Mon, Aug 3, 2009 4:12 AM

Although the life of these chips is spec'd at 10 years,  their probable life at normal storage/operating temperature is probably 30+ years.  I talked to a designer of these devices and he said the limiting factor in most cases is the self-discharge rate of the internal batteries.  The actual lifetime is determined by statistical luck of the draw.

If the batteries go,  you will need to replace the chips and do a full cal.  If your chips are old and you are having a full cal done,  it would be best to replace them.  A full cal will set you back around $500.  The chips should be around $50...  cheap insurance.

I have some Tek 1503B/C TDR's that are over 20 years old.  The Dallas Semi batteries have never been changed and still measure 3.6V.



Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009

Although the life of these chips is spec'd at 10 years, their probable life at normal storage/operating temperature is probably 30+ years. I talked to a designer of these devices and he said the limiting factor in most cases is the self-discharge rate of the internal batteries. The actual lifetime is determined by statistical luck of the draw. If the batteries go, you will need to replace the chips and do a full cal. If your chips are old and you are having a full cal done, it would be best to replace them. A full cal will set you back around $500. The chips should be around $50... cheap insurance. I have some Tek 1503B/C TDR's that are over 20 years old. The Dallas Semi batteries have never been changed and still measure 3.6V. ---------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009
GB
Greg Burnett
Mon, Aug 3, 2009 5:18 AM

Mark - a few questions that might be helpful to the rest of us...

  1. How do we measure the internal battery voltage for the DS1230Y and
    DS1220Y chips? ...Across which pin numbers?

  2. Where can we buy the 3 chips for around $50? (That sounds like a good
    deal to me.)

BTW, my first 3458A NVRAM battery failure occurred at 15 years, right in the
middle of a critical 6 month-long data collection experiment. So this was
catastrophic. In a second 3458A, the NVRAM battery failure occurred at 16
years. Over their lifetimes, I estimate those two units were powered up only
10 percent of the total time. So if someone powers-up their 3458A more of
the time (e.g. running 24/7 all those years), maybe they stand a better
chance of longer battery life? (These chips automatically disconnect their
internal batteries when Vcc rises above 3Vdc.)

The 3458A first went into production 21 years ago. Time sure flies when
we're having fun!

-Greg

Mark - a few questions that might be helpful to the rest of us... 1. How do we measure the internal battery voltage for the DS1230Y and DS1220Y chips? ...Across which pin numbers? 2. Where can we buy the 3 chips for around $50? (That sounds like a good deal to me.) BTW, my first 3458A NVRAM battery failure occurred at 15 years, right in the middle of a critical 6 month-long data collection experiment. So this was catastrophic. In a second 3458A, the NVRAM battery failure occurred at 16 years. Over their lifetimes, I estimate those two units were powered up only 10 percent of the total time. So if someone powers-up their 3458A more of the time (e.g. running 24/7 all those years), maybe they stand a better chance of longer battery life? (These chips automatically disconnect their internal batteries when Vcc rises above 3Vdc.) The 3458A first went into production 21 years ago. Time sure flies when we're having fun! -Greg
PK
Poul-Henning Kamp
Mon, Aug 3, 2009 7:45 AM

In message BLU125-W1344CCFFC33888237BDCA0CE0F0@phx.gbl, Mark Sims writes:

If the batteries go,  you will need to replace the chips and do a full cal.
If your chips are old and you are having a full cal done,  it would be be
st to replace them.  A full cal will set you back around $500.  The chips s
hould be around $50...  cheap insurance.

...or provide them with an external backup-supply higher than 3.0 and lower
than 4.5 Volts.

At 4.5 Volts the chips go into Read-Only mode and the internal backup battery
is a 3V lithium.

I have not tried this on the 3458A yet, but I have used this trick in
other kit.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

In message <BLU125-W1344CCFFC33888237BDCA0CE0F0@phx.gbl>, Mark Sims writes: >If the batteries go, you will need to replace the chips and do a full cal. > If your chips are old and you are having a full cal done, it would be be >st to replace them. A full cal will set you back around $500. The chips s >hould be around $50... cheap insurance. ...or provide them with an external backup-supply higher than 3.0 and lower than 4.5 Volts. At 4.5 Volts the chips go into Read-Only mode and the internal backup battery is a 3V lithium. I have not tried this on the 3458A yet, but I have used this trick in other kit. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.