Hull design, heavy weather and efficiency
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:05:50 -0800
From: "Mike Schooley" schooley@keyway.net
Subject: Re: [PUP] Hull design, heavy weather and efficiency
To: "'Passagemaking Under Power List'"
passagemaking-under-power@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 000001c51d3a$095dfb70$3d00a8c0@MIKESVAIO
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John Harris wrote, "The change to long narrow boats will cause a significant
increase in cost. This might be justified for people that are planning on
many thousands of miles per year of travel but for the vast majority of
users a 5 or 10 thousand dollar a year premium for fuel costs will not cover
the added cost of dockage, storage, and initial cost of a 50% longer and 33%
narrower boat. (In my opinion)"
I waited for someone else to dispute this point, but nobody has so I guess
I'll do it.
I think the difference we see here is the guy paying mooring fee's verses
the guy paying to build a boat. (Grin!)
Underway a 50% longer boat will cost more then
50% to berth. In the med pricing usually works like
< 12 meters 4 Euros a meter
< 15 meters 6 Euros a meter
< 18 meters 9 Euros a meter
< 21 meters 12 Euros a meter
21 meters 15 Euros a meter.
We have just about finished our cruising plans in the Med.
2005 season we arrive April 20th to prep the boat, and plan to depart
around May 1st thru departing Turkey Oct 31st.
Please note this reason the prep is only a week to 10 days, is I go
to the boat every 6 weeks for 2 weeks.
We plan to cruise only about 3,300 - 3,800 miles this season. This
verses the 14,000 we did last year.
Teri, my wife, really prefers to dock. Plus you get a "better" feel
for the place if you can walk whenever you want, rather then screw
around with the dinghy, dock.
Of the 180 days cruising, plan to spend two days a week "on the dock"...
This works out to 52 days "on a dock"
We hope to be able to do this for only 150 dollars a night in May, 200 a day
in June and 250 dollars a night in July and August and 200 dollars a day in
Sept.
Out budget for dockage is around $10,000.
If boat 15 meter boat was actually 23 meters It would probably cost
$40,000 for docking.
However, this would be offset, by the difficulty in finding a slip this long.
While I did the numbers up above were "from the top of my head", I
just realized that one of the boats we are cruising with in May is
planning on spending 10 days on the dock in south of France,
their boat is 20 meters, and his dockage bill is looking like 3000 dollars.
(This is 300 a night in May for a 20 meter boat verses our 100).
Which makes me feel the above numbers are reasonable.
(Before people say anchor more, this is what I need to do to have my
wife go cruising. This ain't her dream, it be mine!)
We will let you know if that is possible for US this winter.
Mike also said:
Most designers and Naval architects say that cost is roughly proportional to
weight and by definition weight is equal to length at waterline (LWL) times
beam at water line (BWL) times draft (D) times the block coefficient (Cb)
times the density of water (dw).
I would have to agree with John Harris on this, skipping the quoted
NA cost analysis, when I see longer boats, they seem to cost more
per pound. I think is due to the ability to charge more for a "bigger"
boat, not based on the cost of building it.
This is based on a simple experience from 2 different brands of
of passagemakers at the Miami boat show.
Given that I usually hear by the time the owner is done a custom built boats
cost 2-4 times what the NA quotes , means that I would not depend
on their analysis of cost! One would think they under budget cost, so they
get more money to design a bigger boat, but I know how easy it is for
an owner to over spec and over build a boat!
Scott wrote, "I would have to agree with John Harris on this, skipping the
quoted NA cost analysis, when I see longer boats, they seem to cost more per
pound. I think is due to the ability to charge more for a "bigger" boat,
not based on the cost of building it.
This is based on a simple experience from 2 different brands of of
passagemakers at the Miami boat show."
I too have noted an increase in the cost per pound as you move to greater
length, but is this due to the length of the vessel or the class of
equipment and accommodations that go along with the larger and more
expensive vessel?
You have a valid point regarding the cost of docking and slip fees. That is
a significant part of the trade-off for Portager. I live in Southern
California where slip fees run $10/foot and up. By keeping Portager on the
trailer when we are not using her we can save enough to cover the cost of
the trailer and the truck to tow her.
Regarding dock fees in the Med, we are more the canal type. My wife loves
sheep and she would rather visit a sheep farm than a casino or a fancy
restaurant. Fortunately with a 12' beam and 11' air draft we are compatible
with most European canals. My problem will be finding a place to stow the
wool :). I need to research docking fees on the canals, but I'm guessing
they will be lower than on the Med. Either way, if my boat were shorter and
wider the canals and for that matter transporting over the highway would be
off limits.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm not saying mine is right
for everyone. I'm just trying to help people see that there are advantages
to long/narrow boats and yes I agree that there are disadvantages too.
Regards;
Mike Schooley
Designing "Portager" a transportable Passagemaker