Empathy List Archives

TP

Torsten Paul

Mon, Oct 3, 2022 12:30 PM

On 03.10.22 13:32, Marcus Poller wrote:

That's been a failure. The flattened structure does not roof(). It
does import and display, but as soon as I use roof(), it disappears.

That's due to the extreme flattening causing self-intersections. You
can either use an additional small offset(0.1) to clean that up:

roof() offset(0.1) import("/tmp/holztextur_flatten.svg");

Or allow shorter segments for the flattening. Giving a value of 3.0
gave a still mostly rounded shapes with 21962 compared to 322372 of
the original SVG.

ciao,
Torsten.

On 03.10.22 13:32, Marcus Poller wrote: > That's been a failure. The flattened structure does not roof(). It > does import and display, but as soon as I use roof(), it disappears. That's due to the extreme flattening causing self-intersections. You can either use an additional small offset(0.1) to clean that up: roof() offset(0.1) import("/tmp/holztextur_flatten.svg"); Or allow shorter segments for the flattening. Giving a value of 3.0 gave a still mostly rounded shapes with 21962 compared to 322372 of the original SVG. ciao, Torsten.

MP

Marcus Poller

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 12:02 AM

Hi Michael,

Michael Marx wrote:

and with 2021.01 (can't run newer ones), it has many degenerate faces (yellow) & some
self-intersections (magenta).

Just reporting this for now.

It may explain CGAL errors.

How did you create the image?
My errors are gone and its likely a combination of flattening_beziehers + offset(), I would like to confirm my assumption.

Cheers,
Marcus

From: Michael Marx [mailto:michael@marx.id.au]
Sent: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 15:54
To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: minkowski + mesh is not closed

Marcus,

First, you should add convexity=10 to all your linear_extrude()'s, 10 may not be perfect, but is a
good number. This fixes preview strange effects, like faces disappearing when moving the display.
Alternatively, if it is not a hungry operation wrap

the linear_extrude() in render() {},

Next time, please comment out or stick into a test module those expensive operations,

like the three at the bottom and mention they can be tested separately.

I normally load up a file and hit F5 to see what's going on, getting a 2hr preview up front is not
nice.

If you have specific errors, it is nice to try to cut down your model to try and find the main
culprit. Try using '*' to block out chunks, a but of trial & error.

Each of the approaches fails in one of those ways:

ERROR: The given mesh is not closed! Unable to convert to CGAL_Nef_Polyhedron. (2022-

09-25_probedruck_textur.scad)

finishes rendering with an empty screen

  (2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad 3rd piece in x-y-plance)

A. Is the first error only with the sample_piece() or with the three operations at the bottom of
the file included?

B. Is the empty screen just with the 3rd piece, or are all the other bits rendered as well?

As a side it would be nice to get advice on how to cut CPU time.

As you have found minkowski() is expensive. intersection() can be too.

More on this later.

But make things smaller when testing, bigger usually means more faces, means more processing.

I added:

sf=1/25;

and made your scale

scale([sf,sf]) import("holztextur.svg",center=true);

So you can make l & h smaller, shrink the scale too, this makes for quicker tests.

(However sometimes that can make some errors disappear - like some CGAL errors)

Breaking this down may help others.

First 2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad

Module sample_piece() has two sides,

the plane square edged, cheap re CPU, but no 45 degree solution,

though small recesses may be printable. Comment that out for testing.

Then the other side with the minkowski. Expensive.

Then there are three tests at the bottom, commenting those out for now.

I have not looked at the other .scad yet.

For now, can you answer A. & B. above, ATM I don't know which bits you are trying to debug.

With

sf=1/50;

l=10;

w=2;

h=10;

&

module sample_piece(){

//render()

union(){

cube([l,w,h]);

*translate([0,w+eh,0]) rotate([90,0,0]) linear_extrude(eh, convexity=10) wooden_texture_2d();

rotate([90,0,0])

        intersection()

             {

             linear_extrude(1, convexity=10)

                  square([l,h]);

             minkowski(){

                  linear_extrude(pseudo_3d, convexity=10)

                        wooden_texture_2d();

                  cone();

             }

        }

}

That previews in 10m, and renders in 22s.

-----Original Message-----

From: Marcus Poller [mailto:h-openscad.org@crystaldown.de]

Sent: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 08:26

To: discuss@lists.openscad.org

Subject: [OpenSCAD] minkowski + mesh is not closed

Dear OpenSCAD users,

I am new to this list. Please bear with me, feedback is welcome.

I have got an issue that OpenSCAD tells me my shape was not closed and I do not understand

why.

Here's the context:

I want to 3d-print a box that looks like it's made of wood. Therefore I decided to apply a

texture (SVG) that resembles the annual rings of a tree. I want to apply that texture to

the sides of the box. The printer cannot print overhangs without support structure, but

overhanging angles of 45° (from base to overhanging outer side) are fine. So I thought I

can convert the SVG to a 3d-structure with 45° rises on every side by using minkowski()

and applying a cylindrical cone. Of course I need to cheat and convert the 2d SVG to 3d

structure first by applying a linear_extrude() before applying minkowski();

I have tried various combinations to get a slice of wooden texture:

minkowski to printable angles, use cube() and intersect() to cut a piece of proper

size. Suffers from a drain of CPU for the minkowski

minkowski SVG, render, export as STL. Import STL, use cube()+intersect() to cut a piece

of proper size. I can provide an example, but its file size is 80 MBytes

user intersect, apply minkowski.

Each of the approaches failes in one of those ways:

ERROR: The given mesh is not closed! Unable to convert to CGAL_Nef_Polyhedron. (2022-

09-25_probedruck_textur.scad)

WARNING: Object may not be a valid 2-manifold and may need repair! (2022-09-

11_probedrucke.scad)

finishes rendering with an empty screen (2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad 3rd piece in

x-y-plance)

Affected OpenSCAD Versions:

OpenSCAD version 2021.01

OpenSCAD version 2022.09.20.ai12175

I do not understand what I'm doing wrong and could use some advice what kind of problem I

created. It's very hard to do extensive testing, because each attempt consumes a lot of

CPU and patience. As a side it would be nice to get advice on how to cut CPU time.

I attached my samples. The error messages vary between preview and render.

Cheers,

Marcus

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Hi Michael, Michael Marx wrote: > and with 2021.01 (can't run newer ones), it has many degenerate faces (yellow) & some > self-intersections (magenta). > > Just reporting this for now. > > It may explain CGAL errors. How did you create the image? My errors are gone and its likely a combination of flattening_beziehers + offset(), I would like to confirm my assumption. Cheers, Marcus > From: Michael Marx [mailto:michael@marx.id.au] > Sent: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 15:54 > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: minkowski + mesh is not closed > > > > Marcus, > > > > First, you should add convexity=10 to all your linear_extrude()'s, 10 may not be perfect, but is a > good number. This fixes preview strange effects, like faces disappearing when moving the display. > Alternatively, if it is not a hungry operation wrap > > the linear_extrude() in render() {}, > > > > Next time, please comment out or stick into a test module those expensive operations, > > like the three at the bottom and mention they can be tested separately. > > I normally load up a file and hit F5 to see what's going on, getting a 2hr preview up front is not > nice. > > > > If you have specific errors, it is nice to try to cut down your model to try and find the main > culprit. Try using '*' to block out chunks, a but of trial & error. > > > > > > > Each of the approaches fails in one of those ways: > > > > > * ERROR: The given mesh is not closed! Unable to convert to CGAL_Nef_Polyhedron. (2022- > > > 09-25_probedruck_textur.scad) > > > * finishes rendering with an empty screen > > (2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad 3rd piece in x-y-plance) > > > > A. Is the first error only with the sample_piece() or with the three operations at the bottom of > the file included? > > B. Is the empty screen just with the 3rd piece, or are all the other bits rendered as well? > > > > > As a side it would be nice to get advice on how to cut CPU time. > > > > As you have found minkowski() is expensive. intersection() can be too. > > More on this later. > > > > But make things smaller when testing, bigger usually means more faces, means more processing. > > I added: > > sf=1/25; > > and made your scale > > scale([sf,sf]) import("holztextur.svg",center=true); > > > > So you can make l & h smaller, shrink the scale too, this makes for quicker tests. > > (However sometimes that can make some errors disappear - like some CGAL errors) > > > > Breaking this down may help others. > > > > First 2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad > > > > Module sample_piece() has two sides, > > the plane square edged, cheap re CPU, but no 45 degree solution, > > though small recesses may be printable. Comment that out for testing. > > Then the other side with the minkowski. Expensive. > > > > Then there are three tests at the bottom, commenting those out for now. > > > > I have not looked at the other .scad yet. > > > > For now, can you answer A. & B. above, ATM I don't know which bits you are trying to debug. > > > > With > > sf=1/50; > > l=10; > > w=2; > > h=10; > > & > > module sample_piece(){ > > //render() > > union(){ > > cube([l,w,h]); > > *translate([0,w+eh,0]) rotate([90,0,0]) linear_extrude(eh, convexity=10) wooden_texture_2d(); > > rotate([90,0,0]) > > intersection() > > { > > linear_extrude(1, convexity=10) > > square([l,h]); > > minkowski(){ > > linear_extrude(pseudo_3d, convexity=10) > > wooden_texture_2d(); > > cone(); > > } > > } > > } > > } > > > > That previews in 10m, and renders in 22s. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Marcus Poller [mailto:h-openscad.org@crystaldown.de] > > > Sent: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 08:26 > > > To: discuss@lists.openscad.org > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] minkowski + mesh is not closed > > > > > > Dear OpenSCAD users, > > > > > > I am new to this list. Please bear with me, feedback is welcome. > > > > > > I have got an issue that OpenSCAD tells me my shape was not closed and I do not understand > > > why. > > > > > > Here's the context: > > > I want to 3d-print a box that looks like it's made of wood. Therefore I decided to apply a > > > texture (SVG) that resembles the annual rings of a tree. I want to apply that texture to > > > the sides of the box. The printer cannot print overhangs without support structure, but > > > overhanging angles of 45° (from base to overhanging outer side) are fine. So I thought I > > > can convert the SVG to a 3d-structure with 45° rises on every side by using minkowski() > > > and applying a cylindrical cone. Of course I need to cheat and convert the 2d SVG to 3d > > > structure first by applying a linear_extrude() before applying minkowski(); > > > > > > I have tried various combinations to get a slice of wooden texture: > > > > > > * minkowski to printable angles, use cube() and intersect() to cut a piece of proper > > > size. Suffers from a drain of CPU for the minkowski > > > * minkowski SVG, render, export as STL. Import STL, use cube()+intersect() to cut a piece > > > of proper size. I can provide an example, but its file size is 80 MBytes > > > * user intersect, apply minkowski. > > > > > > Each of the approaches failes in one of those ways: > > > > > > * ERROR: The given mesh is not closed! Unable to convert to CGAL_Nef_Polyhedron. (2022- > > > 09-25_probedruck_textur.scad) > > > * WARNING: Object may not be a valid 2-manifold and may need repair! (2022-09- > > > 11_probedrucke.scad) > > > * finishes rendering with an empty screen (2022-09-25_probedruck_textur.scad 3rd piece in > > > x-y-plance) > > > > > > Affected OpenSCAD Versions: > > > > > > * OpenSCAD version 2021.01 > > > * OpenSCAD version 2022.09.20.ai12175 > > > > > > I do not understand what I'm doing wrong and could use some advice what kind of problem I > > > created. It's very hard to do extensive testing, because each attempt consumes a lot of > > > CPU and patience. As a side it would be nice to get advice on how to cut CPU time. > > > I attached my samples. The error messages vary between preview and render. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Marcus > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_con > tent=emailclient> width=www.avg.com > > > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. > www.avg.com > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

MP

Marcus Poller

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 12:15 AM

Dear OpenSCAD users,

I would like to provide a summary of answers so far.
The most impactfull has been to reduce the textures detailes using Inkscapes "flattening beziers" feature. As has been pointed out, this creates self-intersecting paths and need to be worked around by a cleanup offset(r=0.01); Reducing the details of my model allowed my to render without OpenSCAD crashing.
The roof()-Function has been proposed. It does not deal well with self-intersecting paths and requires the cleanup offset(r=0.01) workaround. I provides optical pleasing effects while being way faster than the original minkowski()-approach. I scheduled several samples for printing to compare the optical effects and the ease of subsequent works.
My "mesh not closed"-errors appear to be gone. I dit not track it thoroughly, but blame it on flattening+offset. I will tell you as soon as I am sure.
On the general side, having a preview-feature in my model eases time consuming paths. Applying render() on submodules enforces better caching.

Approaches not followed to the end

for() translate() linear_extrude() offset() import() - depends heavily on the selection of parameters. Can be pleasing and fast, can crash OpenSCAD.

Approaches that dit not work:

surface() - geometry is limited

A big thank you to all people who took their time to respond and remote debug!

Dear OpenSCAD users, I would like to provide a summary of answers so far. The most impactfull has been to reduce the textures detailes using Inkscapes "flattening beziers" feature. As has been pointed out, this creates self-intersecting paths and need to be worked around by a cleanup offset(r=0.01); Reducing the details of my model allowed my to render without OpenSCAD crashing. The roof()-Function has been proposed. It does not deal well with self-intersecting paths and requires the cleanup offset(r=0.01) workaround. I provides optical pleasing effects while being way faster than the original minkowski()-approach. I scheduled several samples for printing to compare the optical effects and the ease of subsequent works. My "mesh not closed"-errors appear to be gone. I dit not track it thoroughly, but blame it on flattening+offset. I will tell you as soon as I am sure. On the general side, having a preview-feature in my model eases time consuming paths. Applying render() on submodules enforces better caching. Approaches not followed to the end * for() translate() linear_extrude() offset() import() - depends heavily on the selection of parameters. Can be pleasing and fast, can crash OpenSCAD. Approaches that dit not work: * surface() - geometry is limited A big thank you to all people who took their time to respond and remote debug!

MM

Michael Marx

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 12:47 AM

Marcus,

That image is from 'netfabb Studio Basic' Repair option.
Unfortunately they (now taken over by Autodesk) don't offer the same post-trial Basic version any
more, and it cost an arm and a leg and your first born.
(tho they seem to offer free education licences, but you need to login for info)

If you want to post a .STL I can have a look.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Poller [> Sent: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 11:03
To: OpenSCAD general discussion
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: minkowski + mesh is not closed

How did you create the image?
My errors are gone and its likely a combination of flattening_beziehers + offset(), I
would like to confirm my assumption.

Cheers,
Marcus

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Marcus, That image is from 'netfabb Studio Basic' Repair option. Unfortunately they (now taken over by Autodesk) don't offer the same post-trial Basic version any more, and it cost an arm and a leg and your first born. (tho they seem to offer free education licences, but you need to login for info) If you want to post a .STL I can have a look. > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcus Poller [> Sent: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 11:03 > To: OpenSCAD general discussion > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: minkowski + mesh is not closed > > How did you create the image? > My errors are gone and its likely a combination of flattening_beziehers + offset(), I > would like to confirm my assumption. > > Cheers, > Marcus -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com

MM

Michael Marx

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 6:48 AM

In the beginning was The Mailing-list.

This was the support contact for the OpenSCAD User community, to the OpenSCAD Developer community.

It had a Mailing-list history archive.

Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said history was history.

As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's price was right.

So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list archive.

The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts
were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community.

I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with lost/orphaned/wayward posts.

That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much of the Nabble support.

Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their Admin. They were usually
helpful.

Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically to cut costs.

Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel...

Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners (Franklin) attitude.

So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list that you want access to.

That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but certainly the core
Developers) like emails.

They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan for anything they have
not seen.

That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it has the incidental benefit
of Community support.

But there are many other Community support arenas available.

*Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and listing these alternatives.
Please see attached.

I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I mentioned I too do like
them.

But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider world. Same for the
other Admins.

If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me know. No promises.

MichaelAtOz

OpenSCAD Admin.

p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static,

no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it for archival.

Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future.

p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same circles, I'm likely to
ignore another flare-up.

-----Original Message-----

From: Michael Marx

Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25

To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Make that tomorrow...

-----Original Message-----

From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14

To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Andrew,

Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead.

Long answer a bit later today.

MichaelAtOz

-----Original Message-----

From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28

To: discuss@lists.openscad.org

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum

Hi All, Admins,

I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on

https://forum.openscad.org/

rather than here in a mailing list?

As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more appropriate

format than do this mailing list.

'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the

forum and this mailing list can go separate ways.

Thanks,

Andrew

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

In the beginning was The Mailing-list. This was the support contact for the OpenSCAD User community, to the OpenSCAD Developer community. It had a Mailing-list history archive. Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said history was history. As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's price was right. So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list archive. The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community. I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with lost/orphaned/wayward posts. That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much of the Nabble support. Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their Admin. They were usually helpful. Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically to cut costs. Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel... Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners (Franklin) attitude. So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list that you want access to. That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but certainly the core Developers) like emails. They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan for anything they have not seen. That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it has the incidental benefit of Community support. But there are many other Community support arenas available. *Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and listing these alternatives. Please see attached. I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I mentioned I too do like them. But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider world. Same for the other Admins. If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me know. No promises. MichaelAtOz OpenSCAD Admin. p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static, no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it for archival. Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future. p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same circles, I'm likely to ignore another flare-up. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Marx > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25 > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > Make that tomorrow... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14 > > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > > > Andrew, > > > > Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead. > > > > Long answer a bit later today. > > > > MichaelAtOz > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28 > > > To: discuss@lists.openscad.org > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum > > > > > > Hi All, Admins, > > > > > > I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on > > > > > > https://forum.openscad.org/ > > > > > > rather than here in a mailing list? > > > As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more appropriate > > > format than do this mailing list. > > > > > > 'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the > > > forum and this mailing list can go separate ways. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andrew -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com

ER

edmund ronald

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 8:20 AM

The short answer here is that although there are repeated requests ways to
recreate a forum exist, reasons are systematically found why it is
“impossible”. Like for instance refusing to admit the existence of Google
groups.

This allows the same people here to shut up any legitimate conversation eg.
about 3D printing by claiming it is off topic for this list.

edmund

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, Michael Marx michael@marx.id.au wrote:

In the beginning was The Mailing-list.

This was the support contact for the OpenSCAD User community, to the OpenSCAD
Developer community.

It had a Mailing-list history archive.

Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said
history was history.

As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's
price was right.

So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list
archive.

The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts
were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community.

I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with
lost/orphaned/wayward posts.

That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much
of the Nabble support.

Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their
Admin. They were usually helpful.

Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically
to cut costs.

Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel...

Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners
(Franklin) attitude.

So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list
that you want access to.

That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but
certainly the core Developers) like emails.

They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan
for anything they have not seen.

That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it
has the incidental benefit of Community support.

But there are many other Community support arenas available.

*Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and
listing these alternatives. Please see attached.

I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I
mentioned I too do like them.

But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider
world. Same for the other Admins.

If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me
know. No promises.

MichaelAtOz

OpenSCAD Admin.

p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static,

no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it
for archival.

Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future.

p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same
circles, I'm likely to ignore another flare-up.

-----Original Message-----

From: Michael Marx

Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25

To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Make that tomorrow...

-----Original Message-----

From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14

To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Andrew,

Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead.

Long answer a bit later today.

MichaelAtOz

-----Original Message-----

From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28

To: discuss@lists.openscad.org

Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum

Hi All, Admins,

I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on

https://forum.openscad.org/

rather than here in a mailing list?

As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more

appropriate

format than do this mailing list.

'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the

forum and this mailing list can go separate ways.

Thanks,

Andrew

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<#m_4988554601663860850_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

The short answer here is that although there are repeated requests ways to recreate a forum exist, reasons are systematically found why it is “impossible”. Like for instance refusing to admit the existence of Google groups. This allows the same people here to shut up any legitimate conversation eg. about 3D printing by claiming it is off topic for this list. edmund On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, Michael Marx <michael@marx.id.au> wrote: > In the beginning was The Mailing-list. > > This was the support contact for the *OpenSCAD User community*, to the *OpenSCAD > Developer community*. > > It had a Mailing-list history archive. > > > > Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said > history was history. > > As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's > price was right. > > > > So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list > archive. > > The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts > were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community. > > > > I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with > lost/orphaned/wayward posts. > > That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much > of the Nabble support. > > > > Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their > Admin. They were usually helpful. > > > > Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically > to cut costs. > > Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel... > > Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners > (Franklin) attitude. > > > > So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list > that you want access to. > > That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but > certainly the core Developers) like emails. > > They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan > for anything they have not seen. > > > > That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it > has the incidental benefit of *Community support*. > > > > But there are many other Community support arenas available. > > *Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and > listing these alternatives. Please see attached. > > > > I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I > mentioned I too do like them. > > But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider > world. Same for the other Admins. > > > > If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me > know. No promises. > > > > > > MichaelAtOz > > OpenSCAD Admin. > > > > p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static, > > no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it > for archival. > > Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future. > > > > p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same > circles, I'm likely to ignore another flare-up. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Marx > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25 > > > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > > > > > Make that tomorrow... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14 > > > > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > > > > > > > Andrew, > > > > > > > > Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead. > > > > > > > > Long answer a bit later today. > > > > > > > > MichaelAtOz > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28 > > > > > To: discuss@lists.openscad.org > > > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, Admins, > > > > > > > > > > I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on > > > > > > > > > > https://forum.openscad.org/ > > > > > > > > > > rather than here in a mailing list? > > > > > As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more > appropriate > > > > > format than do this mailing list. > > > > > > > > > > 'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the > > > > > forum and this mailing list can go separate ways. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Andrew > > > > [image: width=] > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > Virus-free.www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > <#m_4988554601663860850_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >

T

trygve@totallytrygve.com

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 9:06 AM

Google Groups is a pain, and I stay away from anything to do with them.
Third-party forum hosting is worse. It's either Tapatalk, or in process of being bought out by them.

I had memberships on two different forums, with different usernames because one is ever so slightly incredibly NSFW and I didn't want anyone googling my usual username and coming across that forum...
but because I used the same email on these accounts, Tapatalk decided that I only had one user, and now the 'other named' account no longer works.
I couldn't even log into it to change the email. I tried to change the email on the one that still worked... yeah, that went well...

I no longer visit those forums.
3D printing...
Or CnC use is generally 'further along in the process' than what OpenSCAD handles, so yeah, can't see a reason to discuss it here.
Please note that I currently have 3 FDM printers(my old Dreammaker Overlord Pro, a 2015? vintage Delta printer, slowly being rebuilt, a Wanhao i3 that recently suffered a mainboard injury. May or may not get repaired, and my latest, a Creality Ender 3 MAX) and a whole boxload of resin printers(iBox Nano, never worked... KUDO3D Bean, wonderful, but plastic trays? waiting for me to adapt a metal tray for it... an Anycubic Photon Zero... Not a hero with that resolution. I got it cheap... real cheap... The Photon I got afterwards has served me faithfully, though. and the latest, a Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K is just 'blown out of your socks good)
I have a heavily rebuilt ShapeOKO CnC out in the garage.
I even cut pieces I design with OpenSCAD using it. But the operation of it is way out of the scope of this list.

How to design something in the most efficient ws is a valid topic here.

How to design it to be successfully printed on a 3D printer is not. That's a general CAD topic, not an OpenSCAD topic.
Trygve
Norway

Den 4. oktober 2022 kl. 10.20.14 +02.00 skrev edmund ronald edmundronald@gmail.com:

The short answer here is that although there are repeated requests ways to recreate a forum exist, reasons are systematically found why it is “impossible”. Like for instance refusing to admit the existence of Google groups.

This allows the same people here to shut up any legitimate conversation eg. about 3D printing by claiming it is off topic for this list.

edmund

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, Michael Marx <michael@marx.id.au> wrote:

In the beginning was The Mailing-list.
This was the support contact for the OpenSCAD User community, to the OpenSCAD Developer community.
It had a Mailing-list history archive.

Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said history was history.
As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's price was right.

So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list archive.

The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts
were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community.
I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with lost/orphaned/wayward posts.
That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much of the Nabble support.

Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their Admin. They were usually helpful.

Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically to cut costs.
Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel...
Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners (Franklin) attitude.

So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list that you want access to.
That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but certainly the core Developers) like emails.
They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan for anything they have not seen.

That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it has the incidental benefit of Community support.

But there are many other Community support arenas available.
*Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and listing these alternatives. Please see attached.

I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I mentioned I too do like them.
But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider world. Same for the other Admins.

If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me know. No promises.

MichaelAtOz
OpenSCAD Admin.

p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static,
no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it for archival.
Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future.

p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same circles, I'm likely to ignore another flare-up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Marx
Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25
To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Make that tomorrow...

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14
To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion'
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum

Andrew,

Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead.

Long answer a bit later today.

MichaelAtOz

-----Original Message-----
From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28
To: discuss@lists.openscad.org
Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum

Hi All, Admins,

I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on

https://forum.openscad.org/

rather than here in a mailing list?
As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more appropriate
format than do this mailing list.

'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the
forum and this mailing list can go separate ways.

Thanks,
Andrew

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OpenSCAD mailing list
To unsubscribe send an email to discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org

Google Groups is a pain, and I stay away from anything to do with them. Third-party forum hosting is worse. It's either Tapatalk, or in process of being bought out by them. I had memberships on two different forums, with different usernames because one is ever so slightly incredibly NSFW and I didn't want anyone googling my usual username and coming across that forum... but because I used the same email on these accounts, Tapatalk decided that I only had one user, and now the 'other named' account no longer works. I couldn't even log into it to change the email. I tried to change the email on the one that still worked... yeah, that went well... I no longer visit those forums. 3D printing... Or CnC use is generally 'further along in the process' than what OpenSCAD handles, so yeah, can't see a reason to discuss it here. Please note that I currently have 3 FDM printers(my old Dreammaker Overlord Pro, a 2015? vintage Delta printer, slowly being rebuilt, a Wanhao i3 that recently suffered a mainboard injury. May or may not get repaired, and my latest, a Creality Ender 3 MAX) and a whole boxload of resin printers(iBox Nano, never worked... KUDO3D Bean, wonderful, but plastic trays? waiting for me to adapt a metal tray for it... an Anycubic Photon Zero... Not a hero with that resolution. I got it cheap... real cheap... The Photon I got afterwards has served me faithfully, though. and the latest, a Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K is just 'blown out of your socks good) I have a heavily rebuilt ShapeOKO CnC out in the garage. I even cut pieces I design with OpenSCAD using it. But the operation of it is way out of the scope of this list. How to design something in the most efficient ws is a valid topic here. How to design it to be successfully printed on a 3D printer is not. That's a general CAD topic, not an OpenSCAD topic. Trygve Norway Den 4. oktober 2022 kl. 10.20.14 +02.00 skrev edmund ronald <edmundronald@gmail.com>: > The short answer here is that although there are repeated requests ways to recreate a forum exist, reasons are systematically found why it is “impossible”. Like for instance refusing to admit the existence of Google groups. > > This allows the same people here to shut up any legitimate conversation eg. about 3D printing by claiming it is off topic for this list. > > > edmund > > On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, Michael Marx <<michael@marx.id.au>> wrote: > > > > > > > In the beginning was The Mailing-list. > > This was the support contact for the OpenSCAD User community, to the OpenSCAD Developer community. > > It had a Mailing-list history archive. > > > > Slightly before my time the private server hosting it lost a disc and said history was history. > > As I understand it, this lead to finding a hosted provider and Nabble's price was right. > > > > So a Forum was born, basically as a bonus from the new Mailing-list archive. > > > > The Developer community kept their Mailing-list and any Forum posts > > were nicely routed to them, they could reply to the User community. > > I actually preferred the Nabble Forum and helped out with lost/orphaned/wayward posts. > > That then lead to getting invited as a formal Admin and I took over much of the Nabble support. > > > > Including signing up to Nabble's Support Forum and working with their Admin. They were usually helpful. > > > > Then, at practically no notice, they killed the email interface, basically to cut costs. > > Hmmm, starting to turn into a novel... > > Anyway see attached for some of the Nabble history and the owners (Franklin) attitude. > > > > So as Jordan pointed out, it is probably the audience on the Mailing-list that you want access to. > > That is the Development community, most (I haven't done a survey*, but certainly the core Developers) like emails. > > They don't have the time, or desire to regularly logon to a Forum and scan for anything they have not seen. > > > > That is the purpose of this environment, an avenue to the Developers, it has the incidental benefit of Community support. > > > > But there are many other Community support arenas available. > > *Luckily Jordan did a nice job recently, summarising his survey, and listing these alternatives. Please see attached. > > > > I do have on my bucket list, finding a Mailing-list integrated Forum, as I mentioned I too do like them. > > But right now there are tooo many other things happening in my & the wider world. Same for the other Admins. > > > > If anyone has suggestions that are dirt cheap & easy to administer, let me know. No promises. > > > > > > MichaelAtOz > > OpenSCAD Admin. > > > > p.s. I doubt anyone noticed, but I recently made the old Forum static, > > no post or replies can be done and no new registrations. I have copied it for archival. > > Nabble will likely want to delete it in the future. > > > > p.p.s. As this topic erupts from time to time then goes around the same circles, I'm likely to ignore another flare-up. > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Michael Marx > > >Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:25 > > >To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > > >Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > > > > > Make that tomorrow... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael Marx > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:14 > > > > To: 'OpenSCAD general discussion' > > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Re: Forum > > > > > > > > Andrew, > > > > > > > > Short answer, as I'm leaving in 30 seconds, no, that forum is dead. > > > > > > > > Long answer a bit later today. > > > > > > > > MichaelAtOz > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: andrew goh > > > Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:28 > > > > > To: <discuss@lists.openscad.org> > > > > > Subject: [OpenSCAD] Forum > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, Admins, > > > > > > > > > > I'm just thinking aloud. Can the discussions be on > > > > > > > > > > <https://forum.openscad.org/> > > > > > > > > > > rather than here in a mailing list? > > > > > As the topics are rather varied, a web based forum is a more appropriate > > > > > format than do this mailing list. > > > > > > > > > > 'mailing list integration' may after all not be necessary, i.e. the > > > > > forum and this mailing list can go separate ways. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > width= <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to <discuss-leave@lists.openscad.org> >

ER

edmund ronald

Tue, Oct 4, 2022 11:43 AM

You see? I don’t want to be told by somebody else whether I am allowed to
talk about my topic - eg how to make sure when shifting and uniting two
parts that the model will print and not be two pieces.

A forum allows people to be free to choose topics that can be safely
ignored; a mailing list generates cascades of people who don’t want another
person’s difficulties landing in their inbox.

E

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, trygve@totallytrygve.com wrote:

Google Groups is a pain, and I stay away from anything to do with them.
Third-party forum hosting is worse. It's either Tapatalk, or in process of
being bought out by them.

I had memberships on two different forums, with different usernames
because one is ever so slightly incredibly NSFW and I didn't want anyone
googling my usual username and coming across that forum...
but because I used the same email on these accounts, Tapatalk decided that
I only had one user, and now the 'other named' account no longer works.
I couldn't even log into it to change the email. I tried to change the
email on the one that still worked... yeah, that went well...
I no longer visit those forums.

3D printing...
Or CnC use is generally 'further along in the process' than what OpenSCAD
handles, so yeah, can't see a reason to discuss it here.
Please note that I currently have 3 FDM printers(my old Dreammaker
Overlord Pro, a 2015? vintage Delta printer, slowly being rebuilt, a Wanhao
i3 that recently suffered a mainboard injury. May or may not get repaired,
and my latest, a Creality Ender 3 MAX) and a whole boxload of resin
printers(iBox Nano, never worked... KUDO3D Bean, wonderful, but plastic
trays? waiting for me to adapt a metal tray for it... an Anycubic Photon
Zero... Not a hero with that resolution. I got it cheap... real cheap...
The Photon I got afterwards has served me faithfully, though. and the
latest, a Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K is just 'blown out of your socks good)
I have a heavily rebuilt ShapeOKO CnC out in the garage.
I even cut pieces I design with OpenSCAD using it. But the operation of it
is way out of the scope of this list.

How to design something in the most efficient ws is a valid topic here.
How to design it to be successfully printed on a 3D printer is not. That's
a general CAD topic, not an OpenSCAD topic.

Trygve
Norway

Den 4. oktober 2022 kl. 10.20.14 +02.00 skrev edmund ronald <
edmundronald@gmail.com>:

The short answer here is that although there are repeated requests ways
to recreate a forum exist, reasons are systematically found why it is
“impossible”. Like for instance refusing to admit the existence of Google
groups.

This allows the same people here to shut up any legitimate conversation
eg. about 3D printing by claiming it is off topic for this list.