Congrads, great day and a great web site. If getting there is half the fun, I think you are 3/4 of the way William A. Roberts The Roberts Law Firm 16250 Dallas Parkway, Ste. 105 Dallas, Texas 75248 bill@therobertslawfirm.com Phone: (972) 661-1040 Fax: (972) 930-0999 Circular 230 Disclaimer (The IRS has recently required us to put the following disclaimer on all communications. The Roberts Law Firm does not agree with the alleged legal effect of this communication). To meet our requirement we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter. -----Original Message----- From: power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com [mailto:power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:00 PM To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com Subject: Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 57, Issue 9 Send Power-Catamaran mailing list submissions to power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/power-catamaran or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com You can reach the person managing the list at power-catamaran-owner@lists.samurai.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Power-Catamaran digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: shionning vt950 (Robert Deering) 2. Shioning vt 950 (Dennis Raedeke) 3. DOMINO is launched (Marie Dufour) 4. Re: DOMINO is launched (Pat Reischmann) 5. Re: DOMINO is launched (Jonah Jones) 6. Seles, Prowler VT950 economy (Roger Hill) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:12:10 -0900 From: Robert Deering <deering@ak.net> To: PCW List <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Subject: Re: [PCW] shionning vt950 Message-ID: <C76FF32A.6803%deering@ak.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Agree with Bob Austin - displacement has a dramatic affect on fuel economy. For example: My 40' LOA Maxweld aluminum power cat has a planing hull. I was disappointed by the planing speed fuel economy. One of the boats ahead of mine in the production line had the identical hull and power plant, and the builder and professional delivery crew reported outstanding numbers on that boat. My boat consumed 40% more fuel. I was convinced that there was a problem with the boat, but the power plant checked out fine, and there were no obvious hull deficiencies other than it was slightly stern-heavy. I finally tracked down the owner of the previous boat. He confirmed that the numbers reported to me were indeed accurate. But there were a few differences between our boats. His was used as a day-boat by the fishing lodge he owned. Mine is a cruising/liveaboard/fishing boat. He had a minimal cabin, small battery bank, small fuel tanks, smaller water tank, no galley, tiny head, no berths, etc. etc. It was the same hull and power, but that's where the similarities ended. My boat weighs almost double what his does. So I don't feel quite so bad. Double the weight, and only 40% more fuel usage. I shouldn't complain. However, I've discovered an amazing thing. If I slow down to displacement speeds, my fuel economy is nearly 4X better. Who knew? I've occasionally run at slow speeds, but hand-steering is very tedious at that speed. I'm having an autopilot installed right now, and next spring I'll be doing my long runs, if I'm not in a hurry, at 8 kts, letting my 'third mate' handle the wheel. On the other hand, if I want to get somewhere in a hurry, and my wallet is feeling fat, I can always crank it up to 25 kts. One of the primary advantages of cats, even the planing flavor, is their ability to run very efficiently at displacement speeds, and yet run at considerably higher speeds as well. Bob Deering Juneau, Alaska On 1/10/10 6:23 PM, "Bob Austin" <thataway4@cox.net> wrote: > Remember that the cost of a hull is a fraction of the total cost of building a > boat. You have to also figure in engines, all systems, upholstery, finish of > the entire interior, paint, fairing, electronics etc. > Also a bare boat's speed (and 8800 lbs is light for a boat this size) is > related to its weight. Once you put in 200 gallons of fuel (1400 lbs) and 200 > gallons of water (1600 lbs)--you have added another 3000 lbs, and will find > that the efficiency will decrease. > > Very difficult to compare the efficiency of a planning and a semi displacement > hull, as well as a gasoline outboard to an inboard diesel. My bet is on the > PDQ--and as Henry says a used PDQ will cost considerably less. > > Bob Austin > _______________________________________________ > Power-Catamaran Mailing List ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:06:28 -0600 From: "Dennis Raedeke" <dennis@wildmountain.com> To: "Power Catamaran List" <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Subject: [PCW] Shioning vt 950 Message-ID: <063A8C8346F7471CA5B117FB98A2FF36@dennisr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great points Bob, I do the same with Wild Wind IV. She is also very heavy with all the things I have put in her and should most likely take most of it back out. With the 1800 gallons of fuel on board she sure is less spirited. In addition to be able to go fast when one wants to, I find the ride much better at a faster speed particularly when the wind is on the beam as was expressed by the crew of Chrysalis. The ability to run for it is a great advantage as I have done in the open water like just before coming in to Ketchikan AK from the south. I can't imagine a cruising boat without an autopilot. Many times I will steer the boat with the autopilot even in rivers. Dennis Raedeke ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:07:09 -0300 From: Marie Dufour <mtdufour@gmail.com> To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com Subject: [PCW] DOMINO is launched Message-ID: <61c51e0f1001110707g41d52402n9cafcbae8be02215@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WOOO HOOO>>>>>>>>> WE DID IT, and DOMINO is finally in the water. SPECTACULAR performance, "displaning" (in Malcolm Tennant's word) at 20 knots. The initial numbers look great: 6,000 NM range at 10 kts, 3,000 NM range at 20 kts... We're leaving Asuncion (paraguay) at the end of the week, en route to Rosario (Argentina), Punta del Este (Uruguay), Florianopolis (Brazil) and up the Brazilian coast before crossing the Atlantic to meet with the LONDON-SYDNEY crew in Istanbul. The Ultimate Ride has started. Check our sites: http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com and http://london-sydney.org Happy New Year to all..... and to all the TENNANT cats owners, contact me: How about a TENNANT CAT group? Cheers domino marie -- Marie-Therese Dufour Fabricacion y Reparacion de Embarcaciones www.dominocatamaran.blogspot.com Campo Via 1850 - Mariano Roque Alonso - Asuncion, Paraguay (tel: (595-21) 751-305 Skype USA #: (714) 881-1045 E-fax USA #: (714) 908-0437 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:35:19 -0500 From: "Pat Reischmann" <preischmann@msn.com> To: "Power Catamaran List" <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Subject: Re: [PCW] DOMINO is launched Message-ID: <BAY123-DS451632BF7CBF732851E7FBF6D0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe "displaning" was coined by Pete Brady not Malcolm. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marie Dufour<mailto:mtdufour@gmail.com> To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com<mailto:power-catamaran@lists.samurai.c om> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: [PCW] DOMINO is launched WOOO HOOO>>>>>>>>> WE DID IT, and DOMINO is finally in the water. SPECTACULAR performance, "displaning" (in Malcolm Tennant's word) at 20 knots. The initial numbers look great: 6,000 NM range at 10 kts, 3,000 NM range at 20 kts... We're leaving Asuncion (paraguay) at the end of the week, en route to Rosario (Argentina), Punta del Este (Uruguay), Florianopolis (Brazil) and up the Brazilian coast before crossing the Atlantic to meet with the LONDON-SYDNEY crew in Istanbul. The Ultimate Ride has started. Check our sites: http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com<http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com/ > and http://london-sydney.org<http://london-sydney.org/> Happy New Year to all..... and to all the TENNANT cats owners, contact me: How about a TENNANT CAT group? Cheers domino marie -- Marie-Therese Dufour Fabricacion y Reparacion de Embarcaciones www.dominocatamaran.blogspot.com<http://www.dominocatamaran.blogspot.com /> Campo Via 1850 - Mariano Roque Alonso - Asuncion, Paraguay (tel: (595-21) 751-305 Skype USA #: (714) 881-1045 E-fax USA #: (714) 908-0437 _______________________________________________ Power-Catamaran Mailing List ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:43:28 -0400 From: Jonah Jones <jonah@northrock.bm> To: Power Catamaran List <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Subject: Re: [PCW] DOMINO is launched Message-ID: <A2032B96-DB2D-4F8E-AD47-45BB563B5042@northrock.bm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Congratulations and safe sailing. Jonah. On Jan 11, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Marie Dufour wrote: WOOO HOOO>>>>>>>>> WE DID IT, and DOMINO is finally in the water. SPECTACULAR performance, "displaning" (in Malcolm Tennant's word) at 20 knots. The initial numbers look great: 6,000 NM range at 10 kts, 3,000 NM range at 20 kts... We're leaving Asuncion (paraguay) at the end of the week, en route to Rosario (Argentina), Punta del Este (Uruguay), Florianopolis (Brazil) and up the Brazilian coast before crossing the Atlantic to meet with the LONDON-SYDNEY crew in Istanbul. The Ultimate Ride has started. Check our sites: http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com and http://london-sydney.org Happy New Year to all..... and to all the TENNANT cats owners, contact me: How about a TENNANT CAT group? Cheers domino marie -- Marie-Therese Dufour Fabricacion y Reparacion de Embarcaciones www.dominocatamaran.blogspot.com Campo Via 1850 - Mariano Roque Alonso - Asuncion, Paraguay (tel: (595-21) 751-305 Skype USA #: (714) 881-1045 E-fax USA #: (714) 908-0437 _______________________________________________ Power-Catamaran Mailing List www.jonah-art.com www.jonahs-whale.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:02:45 +1300 From: "Roger Hill" <rjhill@ihug.co.nz> To: <power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com> Subject: [PCW] Seles, Prowler VT950 economy Message-ID: <84e746$16ajgn@cust.filter3.content.vf.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, Roger Hill here. Although I sometimes enjoy reading the various topics that crop up on this forum I don't often contribute, so here goes! I have been away for a couple of weeks and only yesterday picked up on some dialogue going on about fuel efficiency and comparisons between the Seles and the Prowler VT950. I designed the Seles cat so know a little about it and how it performs. I don't actually know exactly what the fuel burn figures are for that boat and am not sure how accurate they are. The 0.88L/NM figure at 15 knots is presumably off their web site. As a general rule I do not believe any statistics published about designs if they are done so by someone with a vested or commercial interest in that boat and I do not publish performance and fuel consumption figures of my own designs unless they are the results from an independent test. The Seles 10.2m and the Prowler 950 are of a similar size and displacement (10.2m X 4.5m Seles versus 9.5m X 5.5m Prowler) but they are completely different hull forms. The Seles cat is a pure displacement hull and the Prowler is a planing hull (all be it a rather radical shape for a planing hull) and by that fact alone it is extremely difficult to make direct comparisons. The handling and sea keeping ability, stability, motion at rest and in a seaway, etc. would all be quite different. The optimal engine size for the Seles design is in a range of 50 to 70 hp per side with outboards and I think that the Prowler is more than double that amount. The fuel consumption figures that I do have for a sister ship of the Seles fitted with a pair of 60hp Yamaha 4 strokes, loaded displacement of 4,153kg (Prowler has a published figure of 5,500kg loaded) range from 3700rpm, 12.75 knots, 1 L/NM both engines, 4300rpm, 15.6 knots, 1.28L, 5,500rpm, 21 knots, 1.8 L/NM. For a reasonably well built (down to designed weight specified) planing cat of similar dimensions we would expect (figures for a 9.5m planing cat fitted with a pair of 200hp Evinrudes) at 4500rpm, 25 knots, 2.31 L/NM both engines and a top speed of 38.1 knots. The Seles cat was a 'one off' built in Auckland New Zealand and is currently operating very successfully as a bare boat charter vessel in Queensland Australia. There have been several of these 10m displacement hull cats built with various layout and deck styling changes and there is currently underway in Australia a new 10.65m production built version by Argus Boats. The company that built the Seles cat has since been 'reformed' and is now South Pacific Boat Builders. I have no information on what the PDQ 34 goes like so have not included it in this conversation. To convert from metric to those old fashioned figures a US gallon is 3.785L, a kilogram is 2.2046 lbs, and a metre is 3.281 feet. Regards Roger Hill www.powercatsnz.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Power-Catamaran Mailing List End of Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 57, Issue 9 **********************************************