Empathy List Archives

DL

Don Latham

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 4:53 PM

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

No you use a great number of tiny > overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption > and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, > not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. > Think about rats and cockroaches > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... Don -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

J

jmfranke

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 5:29 PM

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many of
the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland LORAN
system run primarily for the railroads.

John WA4WDL

From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many of the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland LORAN system run primarily for the railroads. John WA4WDL -------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival > > > No you use a great number of tiny >> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption >> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, >> not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. >> Think about rats and cockroaches >> Chris Albertson >> Redondo Beach, California > There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried > cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, > or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the > original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of > truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... > Don > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

TM

Tom Miller

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 6:09 PM

I believe many of the GWEN sites were converted to VLF beacons transmitting
differential GPS reference data.

I know of one site in Crownsville, Maryland that does just that.

I don't know the up to data status of these sites now.

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "jmfranke" jmfranke@cox.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many of
the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland LORAN
system run primarily for the railroads.

John WA4WDL

From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I believe many of the GWEN sites were converted to VLF beacons transmitting differential GPS reference data. I know of one site in Crownsville, Maryland that does just that. I don't know the up to data status of these sites now. Regards, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke@cox.net> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many of the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland LORAN system run primarily for the railroads. John WA4WDL -------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival > > > No you use a great number of tiny >> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption >> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, >> not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. >> Think about rats and cockroaches >> Chris Albertson >> Redondo Beach, California > There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried > cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, > or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the > original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of > truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... > Don > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

JS

John Seamons

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 7:42 PM

"http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/01septoct/gwen.cfm"
"http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=SiteLocations"
"http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/ndgps/DGPS_Site_Table.pdf"

The only ones I know for a fact were former GWEN sites are Essex CA and ABQ NM.
I can hear 29 +/- of these with an indoor loopstick in the winter when conditions are quiet.

On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Tom Miller wrote:

I believe many of the GWEN sites were converted to VLF beacons transmitting differential GPS reference data.

I know of one site in Crownsville, Maryland that does just that.

I don't know the up to data status of these sites now.

Regards,
Tom

"http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/01septoct/gwen.cfm" "http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=SiteLocations" "http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/ndgps/DGPS_Site_Table.pdf" The only ones I know for a fact were former GWEN sites are Essex CA and ABQ NM. I can hear 29 +/- of these with an indoor loopstick in the winter when conditions are quiet. On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Tom Miller wrote: > I believe many of the GWEN sites were converted to VLF beacons transmitting differential GPS reference data. > > I know of one site in Crownsville, Maryland that does just that. > > I don't know the up to data status of these sites now. > > > Regards, > Tom

JS

John Seamons

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 7:51 PM

I can't seem to remember it's angle brackets you use to quote a url. Sorry about that for those of you reading on the archive and getting bad links. Try below:

On Jul 15, 2012, at 1:42 PM, John Seamons wrote:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/01septoct/gwen.cfm
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=SiteLocations
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/ndgps/DGPS_Site_Table.pdf

The only ones I know for a fact were former GWEN sites are Essex CA and ABQ NM.
I can hear 29 +/- of these with an indoor loopstick in the winter when conditions are quiet.

I can't seem to remember it's angle brackets you use to quote a url. Sorry about that for those of you reading on the archive and getting bad links. Try below: On Jul 15, 2012, at 1:42 PM, John Seamons wrote: > <http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/01septoct/gwen.cfm> > <http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=SiteLocations> > <http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/ndgps/DGPS_Site_Table.pdf> > > The only ones I know for a fact were former GWEN sites are Essex CA and ABQ NM. > I can hear 29 +/- of these with an indoor loopstick in the winter when conditions are quiet.

DL

Don Latham

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 9:33 PM

could be it...
Don

jmfranke

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many
of
the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland
LORAN
system run primarily for the railroads.

John WA4WDL

From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a
buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport
of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

could be it... Don jmfranke > Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many > of > the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland > LORAN > system run primarily for the railroads. > > John WA4WDL > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival > >> >> >> No you use a great number of tiny >>> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption >>> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, >>> not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. >>> Think about rats and cockroaches >>> Chris Albertson >>> Redondo Beach, California >> There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a >> buried >> cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, >> or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the >> original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport >> of >> truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... >> Don >> >> >> -- >> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument >> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." >> R. Bacon >> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." >> Ghost in the Shell >> >> >> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >> Six Mile Systems LLP >> 17850 Six Mile Road >> POB 134 >> Huson, MT, 59846 >> VOX 406-626-4304 >> www.lightningforensics.com >> www.sixmilesystems.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com

LM

Lee Mushel

Sun, Jul 15, 2012 11:44 PM

Well, it could have been ELF whose Seafarer antenna was located at Clam Lake
Wisconsin. My grandfather built a vacation cabin just north of Clam Lake
and it was a big deal to visit the place. That was before the peaceniks
were demonstrating since they didn't seem to want our submarines to do too
much damage to Russia. I think that antenna was almost 30 miles
long---don't quote me but it was an important component in the very low
frequency communications system of the Navy......

Lee K9WRU
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

could be it...
Don

jmfranke

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many
of
the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland
LORAN
system run primarily for the railroads.

John WA4WDL

From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a
buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport
of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Well, it could have been ELF whose Seafarer antenna was located at Clam Lake Wisconsin. My grandfather built a vacation cabin just north of Clam Lake and it was a big deal to visit the place. That was before the peaceniks were demonstrating since they didn't seem to want our submarines to do too much damage to Russia. I think that antenna was almost 30 miles long---don't quote me but it was an important component in the very low frequency communications system of the Navy...... Lee K9WRU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival > could be it... > Don > > jmfranke >> Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many >> of >> the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland >> LORAN >> system run primarily for the railroads. >> >> John WA4WDL >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> >> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival >> >>> >>> >>> No you use a great number of tiny >>>> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption >>>> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, >>>> not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. >>>> Think about rats and cockroaches >>>> Chris Albertson >>>> Redondo Beach, California >>> There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a >>> buried >>> cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, >>> or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the >>> original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport >>> of >>> truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... >>> Don >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument >>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." >>> R. Bacon >>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." >>> Ghost in the Shell >>> >>> >>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >>> Six Mile Systems LLP >>> 17850 Six Mile Road >>> POB 134 >>> Huson, MT, 59846 >>> VOX 406-626-4304 >>> www.lightningforensics.com >>> www.sixmilesystems.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

TM

Tom Miller

Mon, Jul 16, 2012 1:28 AM

I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub know that
it had to come close to the surface to receive new information. I'll need to
google around to find more about it.

We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1 MW at
about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire?

Regards,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Mushel" herbert3@centurytel.net
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

Well, it could have been ELF whose Seafarer antenna was located at Clam Lake
Wisconsin. My grandfather built a vacation cabin just north of Clam Lake
and it was a big deal to visit the place. That was before the peaceniks
were demonstrating since they didn't seem to want our submarines to do too
much damage to Russia. I think that antenna was almost 30 miles
long---don't quote me but it was an important component in the very low
frequency communications system of the Navy......

Lee K9WRU
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

could be it...
Don

jmfranke

Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many
of
the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland
LORAN
system run primarily for the railroads.

John WA4WDL

From: "Don Latham" djl@montana.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

No you use a great number of tiny

overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature.
Think about rats and cockroaches
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a
buried
cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the
original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport
of
truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
Don

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell

Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub know that it had to come close to the surface to receive new information. I'll need to google around to find more about it. We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1 MW at about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire? Regards, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Mushel" <herbert3@centurytel.net> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival Well, it could have been ELF whose Seafarer antenna was located at Clam Lake Wisconsin. My grandfather built a vacation cabin just north of Clam Lake and it was a big deal to visit the place. That was before the peaceniks were demonstrating since they didn't seem to want our submarines to do too much damage to Russia. I think that antenna was almost 30 miles long---don't quote me but it was an important component in the very low frequency communications system of the Navy...... Lee K9WRU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival > could be it... > Don > > jmfranke >> Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many >> of >> the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland >> LORAN >> system run primarily for the railroads. >> >> John WA4WDL >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Don Latham" <djl@montana.com> >> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival >> >>> >>> >>> No you use a great number of tiny >>>> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption >>>> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, >>>> not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. >>>> Think about rats and cockroaches >>>> Chris Albertson >>>> Redondo Beach, California >>> There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a >>> buried >>> cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, >>> or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the >>> original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport >>> of >>> truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... >>> Don >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument >>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." >>> R. Bacon >>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." >>> Ghost in the Shell >>> >>> >>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL >>> Six Mile Systems LLP >>> 17850 Six Mile Road >>> POB 134 >>> Huson, MT, 59846 >>> VOX 406-626-4304 >>> www.lightningforensics.com >>> www.sixmilesystems.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

MD

Magnus Danielson

Mon, Jul 16, 2012 8:05 AM

On 07/16/2012 03:28 AM, Tom Miller wrote:

I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub know
that it had to come close to the surface to receive new information.
I'll need to google around to find more about it.

We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1 MW
at about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire?

We had the ELF transmitter at Grimeton (SAQ) transmitting about 200 kHz
at 17.2 kHz using the Alexanderson alternator. I think the litz wire was
4 inch in diameter as I recall it. It was cutting edge in 1924.
It was initially used for telegraph traffic to the US, and the Long
Island main station. It was really never keyed by hand, it was keyed
remote with optical keyer and messages taped back-to-back. After its
main service for telegraph messages was no longer motivate it, it got
used as the "bell ringer" for our subs and kept operational and
maintained up till about 1996 and it has since been taken care off so it
can be used for museeum. It's now on UNESCOs world-heritage list.

Links:
http://www.grimetonradio.se/
http://www.radiostationengrimeton.se/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_VLF_transmitter
http://www.grimeton.org/
http://www.alexander.n.se/

Do visit Grimeton if you are in south of Sweden. You can also tune in to
it's transmissions and report back.

The remaining submarine radiostation in Ruda could actually be turn into
a time-code transmitter. It's a matter of financing it and giving the order.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 07/16/2012 03:28 AM, Tom Miller wrote: > I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub know > that it had to come close to the surface to receive new information. > I'll need to google around to find more about it. > > We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1 MW > at about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire? We had the ELF transmitter at Grimeton (SAQ) transmitting about 200 kHz at 17.2 kHz using the Alexanderson alternator. I think the litz wire was 4 inch in diameter as I recall it. It was cutting edge in 1924. It was initially used for telegraph traffic to the US, and the Long Island main station. It was really never keyed by hand, it was keyed remote with optical keyer and messages taped back-to-back. After its main service for telegraph messages was no longer motivate it, it got used as the "bell ringer" for our subs and kept operational and maintained up till about 1996 and it has since been taken care off so it can be used for museeum. It's now on UNESCOs world-heritage list. Links: http://www.grimetonradio.se/ http://www.radiostationengrimeton.se/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_VLF_transmitter http://www.grimeton.org/ http://www.alexander.n.se/ Do visit Grimeton if you are in south of Sweden. You can also tune in to it's transmissions and report back. The remaining submarine radiostation in Ruda could actually be turn into a time-code transmitter. It's a matter of financing it and giving the order. Cheers, Magnus

DJ

Didier Juges

Mon, Jul 16, 2012 7:59 PM

I believe ELF is more like 100 Hz, which can be received much deeper, so the sub can stay at the bottom. 24kHz is VLF.

Didier KO4BB

Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:

On 07/16/2012 03:28 AM, Tom Miller wrote:

I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub

know

that it had to come close to the surface to receive new information.
I'll need to google around to find more about it.

We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1

MW

at about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire?

We had the ELF transmitter at Grimeton (SAQ) transmitting about 200 kHz

at 17.2 kHz using the Alexanderson alternator. I think the litz wire
was
4 inch in diameter as I recall it. It was cutting edge in 1924.
It was initially used for telegraph traffic to the US, and the Long
Island main station. It was really never keyed by hand, it was keyed
remote with optical keyer and messages taped back-to-back. After its
main service for telegraph messages was no longer motivate it, it got
used as the "bell ringer" for our subs and kept operational and
maintained up till about 1996 and it has since been taken care off so
it
can be used for museeum. It's now on UNESCOs world-heritage list.

Links:
http://www.grimetonradio.se/
http://www.radiostationengrimeton.se/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_VLF_transmitter
http://www.grimeton.org/
http://www.alexander.n.se/

Do visit Grimeton if you are in south of Sweden. You can also tune in
to
it's transmissions and report back.

The remaining submarine radiostation in Ruda could actually be turn
into
a time-code transmitter. It's a matter of financing it and giving the
order.

Cheers,
Magnus

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--
Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

I believe ELF is more like 100 Hz, which can be received much deeper, so the sub can stay at the bottom. 24kHz is VLF. Didier KO4BB Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: >On 07/16/2012 03:28 AM, Tom Miller wrote: >> I believe they called that system a "bell ringer". It let the sub >know >> that it had to come close to the surface to receive new information. >> I'll need to google around to find more about it. >> >> We had a ELF transmitter (NSS) in Annapolis that transmitted about 1 >MW >> at about 24 kHz. Anyone ever seen 3 inch diameter litz wire? > >We had the ELF transmitter at Grimeton (SAQ) transmitting about 200 kHz > >at 17.2 kHz using the Alexanderson alternator. I think the litz wire >was >4 inch in diameter as I recall it. It was cutting edge in 1924. >It was initially used for telegraph traffic to the US, and the Long >Island main station. It was really never keyed by hand, it was keyed >remote with optical keyer and messages taped back-to-back. After its >main service for telegraph messages was no longer motivate it, it got >used as the "bell ringer" for our subs and kept operational and >maintained up till about 1996 and it has since been taken care off so >it >can be used for museeum. It's now on UNESCOs world-heritage list. > >Links: >http://www.grimetonradio.se/ >http://www.radiostationengrimeton.se/ >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_VLF_transmitter >http://www.grimeton.org/ >http://www.alexander.n.se/ > >Do visit Grimeton if you are in south of Sweden. You can also tune in >to >it's transmissions and report back. > >The remaining submarine radiostation in Ruda could actually be turn >into >a time-code transmitter. It's a matter of financing it and giving the >order. > >Cheers, >Magnus > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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WWVB and Free Democracies Survival