Empathy List Archives

DM

Demian Martin

Wed, Aug 31, 2011 1:58 AM

Bob:
To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a
really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about
this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a
real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do.
If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there
is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit
layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not
trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf

Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke
731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are
doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a
Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those
three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without
attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only
the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll
fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started.
I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the
shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are
probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more
with my "day" job.

If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started.
Demian

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500
From: Bob Smither smither@c-c-i.com
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards
Message-ID: 4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Fellow Voltage Fans,

To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to
10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of
voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will
ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their
readings of the standard and share those readings with the list.

I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references
(an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the
temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350.

The schematic is attached to this page:

http://www.c-c-i.com/TS

Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external
"wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift
caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator.

My design notes are included on the above page.

I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will
move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing.

Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are
noted on this page:

http://c-c-i.com/node/121

Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been
calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no
better than .01% and may be much worse.

My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length
of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs.

After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to
ship.

Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a
measurement of the Traveling Standard?

I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make
them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we
can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known
output voltage.

I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful
measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit.

Thanks!

Bob: To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do. If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it: http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke 731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started. I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more with my "day" job. If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started. Demian Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500 From: Bob Smither <smither@c-c-i.com> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards Message-ID: <4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Fellow Voltage Fans, To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to 10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their readings of the standard and share those readings with the list. I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references (an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350. The schematic is attached to this page: http://www.c-c-i.com/TS Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external "wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator. My design notes are included on the above page. I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing. Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are noted on this page: http://c-c-i.com/node/121 Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no better than .01% and may be much worse. My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs. After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to ship. Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a measurement of the Traveling Standard? I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known output voltage. I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit. Thanks! ****************

CP

Charles P. Steinmetz

Wed, Aug 31, 2011 5:24 AM

Demian wrote:

To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a
really frustrating experience. * * *
If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there
is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit
layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not
trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf

Linear Technology's Application Notes AN42, AN82, AN86, and AN124
also contain valuable information on the topic. The Linear
Technology Design Note DN229 discusses reference hysteresis,
including the thermal shock from soldering.

I also have a 732A, a Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use
LTZ1000 references.

I believe the 732A uses a common-substrate zener + transistor in an
oven assembly that contains the whole reference circuit.

Best regards,

Charles

Demian wrote: >To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a >really frustrating experience. * * * >If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there >is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit >layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not >trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it: >http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf Linear Technology's Application Notes AN42, AN82, AN86, and AN124 also contain valuable information on the topic. The Linear Technology Design Note DN229 discusses reference hysteresis, including the thermal shock from soldering. >I also have a 732A, a Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use >LTZ1000 references. I believe the 732A uses a common-substrate zener + transistor in an oven assembly that contains the whole reference circuit. Best regards, Charles

EA

Electronics and Books

Wed, Aug 31, 2011 2:25 PM

There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable.

Met vriendelijke groeten
Regards

Frans

ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com

From: Demian Martin demianm_1@yahoo.com

To: 'Bob Smither' smither@c-c-i.com
Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards

Bob:
To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a
really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about
this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a
real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do.
If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there
is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit
layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not
trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf

Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke
731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are
doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a
Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those
three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without
attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only
the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll
fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started.
I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the
shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are
probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more
with my "day" job.

If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started.
Demian

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500
From: Bob Smither smither@c-c-i.com
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards
Message-ID: 4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Fellow Voltage Fans,

To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to
10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of
voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will
ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their
readings of the standard and share those readings with the list.

I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references
(an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the
temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350.

The schematic is attached to this page:

http://www.c-c-i.com/TS

Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external
"wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift
caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator.

My design notes are included on the above page.

I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will
move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing.

Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are
noted on this page:

http://c-c-i.com/node/121

Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been
calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no
better than .01% and may be much worse.

My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length
of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs.

After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to
ship.

Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a
measurement of the Traveling Standard?

I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make
them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we
can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known
output voltage.

I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful
measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit.

Thanks!

volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable. Met vriendelijke groeten Regards Frans ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com From: Demian Martin <demianm_1@yahoo.com> To: 'Bob Smither' <smither@c-c-i.com> Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards Bob: To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do. If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it: http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke 731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started. I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more with my "day" job. If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started. Demian Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500 From: Bob Smither <smither@c-c-i.com> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards Message-ID: <4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Fellow Voltage Fans, To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to 10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their readings of the standard and share those readings with the list. I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references (an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350. The schematic is attached to this page: http://www.c-c-i.com/TS Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external "wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator. My design notes are included on the above page. I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing. Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are noted on this page: http://c-c-i.com/node/121 Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no better than .01% and may be much worse. My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs. After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to ship. Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a measurement of the Traveling Standard? I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known output voltage. I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit. Thanks! **************** _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.

LM

Laurence Motteram

Wed, Aug 31, 2011 10:11 PM

I am just curious; WHY is there a constant supply of 3458A reference boards? Where do they all come from?

Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Electronics and Books
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:26 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards

There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable.

Met vriendelijke groeten
Regards

Frans

ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com

From: Demian Martin demianm_1@yahoo.com

To: 'Bob Smither' smither@c-c-i.com
Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards

Bob:
To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a
really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about
this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a
real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do.
If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there
is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit
layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not
trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf

Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke
731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are
doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a
Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those
three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without
attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only
the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll
fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started.
I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the
shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are
probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more
with my "day" job.

If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started.
Demian

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500
From: Bob Smither smither@c-c-i.com
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards
Message-ID: 4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Fellow Voltage Fans,

To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to
10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of
voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will
ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their
readings of the standard and share those readings with the list.

I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references
(an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the
temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350.

The schematic is attached to this page:

http://www.c-c-i.com/TS

Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external
"wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift
caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator.

My design notes are included on the above page.

I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will
move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing.

Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are
noted on this page:

http://c-c-i.com/node/121

Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been
calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no
better than .01% and may be much worse.

My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length
of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs.

After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to
ship.

Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a
measurement of the Traveling Standard?

I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make
them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we
can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known
output voltage.

I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful
measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit.

Thanks!

volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I am just curious; WHY is there a constant supply of 3458A reference boards? Where do they all come from? Regards, Laurence Motteram -----Original Message----- From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Electronics and Books Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:26 AM To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable. Met vriendelijke groeten Regards Frans ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com From: Demian Martin <demianm_1@yahoo.com> To: 'Bob Smither' <smither@c-c-i.com> Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards Bob: To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do. If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it: http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke 731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started. I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more with my "day" job. If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started. Demian Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500 From: Bob Smither <smither@c-c-i.com> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards Message-ID: <4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Fellow Voltage Fans, To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to 10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their readings of the standard and share those readings with the list. I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references (an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350. The schematic is attached to this page: http://www.c-c-i.com/TS Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external "wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator. My design notes are included on the above page. I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing. Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are noted on this page: http://c-c-i.com/node/121 Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no better than .01% and may be much worse. My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs. After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to ship. Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a measurement of the Traveling Standard? I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known output voltage. I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit. Thanks! **************** _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.

A

Artekmedia

Wed, Aug 31, 2011 10:17 PM

For starters the 3458A is still officially a "supported" product ( by
Agilent) , meaning you can still buy replacement parts and boards
directly from Agilent...not inexpensive mind you

Dave
NR1DX

On 8/31/2011 5:11 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote:

I am just curious; WHY is there a constant supply of 3458A reference boards? Where do they all come from?

Regards,

Laurence Motteram

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Electronics and Books
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:26 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards

There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable.

Met vriendelijke groeten
Regards

Frans

ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com

From: Demian Martindemianm_1@yahoo.com

To: 'Bob Smither'smither@c-c-i.com
Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards

Bob:
To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a
really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about
this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a
real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do.
If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there
is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit
layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not
trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf

Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke
731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are
doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a
Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those
three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without
attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only
the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll
fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started.
I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the
shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are
probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more
with my "day" job.

If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started.
Demian

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500
From: Bob Smithersmither@c-c-i.com
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurementvolt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards
Message-ID:4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Fellow Voltage Fans,

To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to
10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of
voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will
ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their
readings of the standard and share those readings with the list.

I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references
(an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the
temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350.

The schematic is attached to this page:

http://www.c-c-i.com/TS

Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external
"wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift
caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator.

My design notes are included on the above page.

I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will
move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing.

Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are
noted on this page:

http://c-c-i.com/node/121

Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been
calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no
better than .01% and may be much worse.

My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length
of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs.

After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to
ship.

Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a
measurement of the Traveling Standard?

I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make
them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we
can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known
output voltage.

I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful
measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit.

Thanks!

volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
Dave& Lynn Henderson
Manuals@ArtekMedia.com
www.Artekmedia.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089

For starters the 3458A is still officially a "supported" product ( by Agilent) , meaning you can still buy replacement parts and boards directly from Agilent...not inexpensive mind you Dave NR1DX On 8/31/2011 5:11 PM, Laurence Motteram wrote: > I am just curious; WHY is there a constant supply of 3458A reference boards? Where do they all come from? > > > Regards, > > Laurence Motteram > > -----Original Message----- > From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Electronics and Books > Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 12:26 AM > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards > > There is a constant supply of the reference board of a hp 3458A multimeter. Only a power supply is needed. There are not 10V but stable. > > > Met vriendelijke groeten > Regards > > > Frans > > > ElectronicsAndBooks at Yahoo dot com > > From: Demian Martin<demianm_1@yahoo.com> > > To: 'Bob Smither'<smither@c-c-i.com> > Cc: volt-nuts@febo.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:58 AM > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards > > Bob: > To make a real PPM standard has so many technique pitfalls that it may be a > really frustrating experience. The late Jim Willians wrote something about > this in a article on checking precision DAC's. Even with the best stuff a > real climate controlled environment is more than most of us are able to do. > If you look at the manuals and construction efforts for these things there > is a lot of experience in details that's hard to just copy. Even the circuit > layouts and managing the thermocouples in all the connections is not > trivial. Here is a good starting point for understanding it: > http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an74f.pdf > > Here is an alternate offer I'll make. I just checked and I have 3 Fluke > 731b's that I'll be happy to provide for travelling standards. They are > doing nothing but occupying space on a shelf for now. I also have a 732A, a > Prema DVM and a Fluke 8506a, all of which use LTZ1000 references. Those > three have tracked each other within 50 ppm for the last 5 years without > attention. Probably none have been calibrated in the 21'st century and only > the Flukes have a common origin. Prema makes their own JJ standards. I'll > fire up the 3 731b's and check them against the trio to get things started. > I'll get them boxed in a nice reusable shipping case if you will pick up the > shipping to start this off. They may need service (the batteries are > probably shot by now), I'll leave that to you. I don't have time for more > with my "day" job. > > If this is interesting send me a note directly and I'll get it started. > Demian > > Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:52:24 -0500 > From: Bob Smither<smither@c-c-i.com> > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement<volt-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards > Message-ID:<4E5C5E78.6020109@c-c-i.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Fellow Voltage Fans, > > To review - I would like to have a lab standard here that I can trust to > 10 ppm or better to use to calibrate my expanding collection of > voltmeters. I have proposed to built a portable standard that I will > ship to participating volt nuts on this list who will record their > readings of the standard and share those readings with the list. > > I have designed a Traveling Standard that incorporates two references > (an LM199AH and a MAX6350E) along with an LM34 to measure the > temperature of the MAX6350 (the LM34 is glued to the top of the MAX6350. > > The schematic is attached to this page: > > http://www.c-c-i.com/TS > > Following suggestions on this list (thanks!) I will use an external > "wall wart" supply for the input 24 Volts. This reduces any shift > caused by the line regulation of the three terminal regulator. > > My design notes are included on the above page. > > I have constructed a bread board of the circuit on a plugboard. I will > move the circuit to a printed circuit version after some testing. > > Some preliminary readings from the breadboard of the LM199AH part are > noted on this page: > > http://c-c-i.com/node/121 > > Note that these readings are taken with an HP3455A which has not been > calibrated since I bought it new. I would expect the accuracy to be no > better than .01% and may be much worse. > > My plan is to mount the printed circuit board version in a short length > of 2" PVC pipe with connectors for the three outputs. > > After the printed circuit board version is aged some it will be ready to > ship. > > Are there any more on the list that would be willing to make a > measurement of the Traveling Standard? > > I will collect the readings that we collectively get on the TS and make > them available to the list. I anticipate that with some experience we > can all benefit from having this TS well aged and with a well known > output voltage. > > I will handle the shipping - all I ask is that you take careful > measurements and provide them to me, then return the unit. > > Thanks! > > **************** > > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > -- Dave& Lynn Henderson Manuals@ArtekMedia.com www.Artekmedia.com PO Box 175 Welch,MN 55089

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Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards