<Bob wrote in part: Certainly one of the goals of a list server like Trawlers and Trawlering should be to educate people as to what is a good hull, condition, suitability and mechanical survey--and where to have one done.> I agree 100% with both Mike and Bob on this subject. As some of you know I was a boat broker for many years in the Caribbean and other places. 90% of my sales were on the sailboat side as we had few powerboats in the Caribbean until recently. Last year one of my friends wanted a mothership for his sailboat racing program. So I set out to look at the market in the Caribbean for him. We located an Atlantic 47 that the broker represented as having many $$$ recently invested by the owner and had always been well kept. The reason for selling was that the owner had already bought a new 56' trawler. As I had retired and we were out cruising I couldn't look at this boat myself. Got on email to some of my old contacts and put together a team of "experts" for my friend. This consisted of a hull surveyor (the one I use personally for any surveys I need), an engine surveyor (as the boat had Cat 3208TA's I got the in-house mechanic of one of the powerboat charter companies that runs Cat's exclusively. This guy can walk by one running on the dock and let you know it needs something before the next charter!), and a boat driver that can tell you how, what and why a boat feels the way it does from start up till you return to the dock. He's a briefing, checkout, teaching and debriefing skipper with hundreds of them to his credit. In any case the hull survey found some broken tabbing in the floor structure up front in the pre-sea trial look and a few other items but no deal killers. The engine machine checked the engines with a cursory look before the launch but couldn't run them. The boat was launched and the owner had his guy spend 2 days checking things and getting it ready for the sea trial etc. Because of timing and his work schedule the engine man couldn't do any in water pre-checks until immediately before the sea trial team was on board. He'd do his complete checks during and after the sea trail. Started with a bit of blue but normal for their age and off they went. Part of the sea trail was to go look for some typical tradewind seas as again this boat was to be a mothership for his race program and had to travel regardless of weather as much as 200 miles with the crew and race boat for Regattas. They were powering out of the channel and as the skipper brought the revs up all was ok from the engine guy but the skipper said thing felt a bit "wobbly" as the boat hit some wave chop. Then the mechanic said there was some "weeping" on the side of one engine block after WOT power had been applied. The skipper was less than pleased as to how the boat "felt" and the hull surveyor went down below forward, pulled the floor panels, moved some furniture and was taken aback by the hull flexing that was present as the boat went into the headseas. BTW, these are 3-5' waves and the boat was at 15-16 kts....not a large stress for a hull. Jump to the end. One engine needed a new long block, the other a new head, the hull was delaminated for about 12' from the bow back on the stbd side and 6' on the port side. Neither transmission was on top of the game as one had some slippage in hard reverse and the other had a bad output shaft bearing. The buyer, who owns many boats both sail and power could not believe all of this. The seller was a bit more quiet but still taken aback. The boat was listed at $217K, deal was at $189K and the estimate for repairs after the survey was $147K. The buyer walked. Total cost from the 3 folks who were working for the buyer was $1850. Were they worth it? Heck yes. Anyone who isn't a surveyor, mechanic AND delivery/checkout type skipper (i.e. a person who runs many different boats often and tells the horror stories) needs to put a team like this together as part of their purchase team. To do otherwise is shear folly, IMHO. The investment in this team pales in comparison with the checks you'll be writing by purchasing a boat that hasn't had the benefit of this type of scrutiny. BTW, if you decide to go forward with a "project boat" get a good Project Manager independent of any boatyard. He to can keep everyone honest, will more than likely save you money by doing so. These guys can be hard to find but worth the trouble of finding them, IMHO. Sellers run the range of not knowing the real condition of their boats to actually misrepresenting them. Most owners never run their boats at WOT for 15 minutes or so. Running in seas and "shaking the hull & tanks" is not the average boaters usage. However if you don't do these simple things as part of the "due diligence" then you have no one to blame but yourself. Dealing with a good reputable broker will help weed some of this out BUT failing to get a good hull surveyor, good knowledgeable mechanic and boat driver who are working for you is not an option, IMHO. If the seller and/or broker object....move on! There are lots of boats out there and buying trouble can make your checkbook run for the hills ;-) BTW, my friend did buy another boat at the asking price! It is a Hatteras LRC 48 and he did so using the seller's surveyor and skipper. They were such nice folks. $50k later of "repairs and upgrades" to this "pristine, never seen one better, etc" gush from the seller, surveyor and driver my friend says he should have used the same team as before. Some folks are slow learners, IMO. Best advice is to find some really good folks...many on this list know good people to look over that potential new to you boat. You are emotionally involved pre sale and might not see the warts. Post sale you are emotionally involved but also financially involved. Work hard to keep the romance alive after the sale :-) As always YMMV.... Dave & Nancy Swan Song Roughwater 58