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Re: TWL: 32 Volt DC System

DH
Douglas Hoople
Fri, May 17, 2002 10:53 PM

Maruice,

If you don't already have one, then there are no pros to a 32-volt system.  If you've got one, then there are lots of pros, but one specific con: they've stopped making the parts.

Last year, Xantrex dropped 32-volt chargers and inverters from all their lines, and Jabsco stopped making 32-volt freshwater pumps.

Last year must have marked the end of the 'must-support' period for 32-volt systems, because that's when they suddenly stopped making stuff for that voltage.

On the plus side, things last longer at higher voltages, so if you have a boat with a 32-volt system, you'll probably have more time to consider how to manage your migration to 24 (which is what we're doing now) or 48 (if you can wait for automotive standards to catch up). At 48 volts, at least you'd be able to retain all your wiring.

Doug Hoople
M/V Bomar
1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY
Sausalito, CA

On Fri, 17 May 2002 17:12:19 -0400 Maurice Marwood aepmem@bahamas.net.bs wrote:

What are the pros and cons with a 32 volt DC electrical system?

Maurice Marwood
aepmem@bahamas.net.bs


http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawler-world-list

Maruice, If you don't already have one, then there are no pros to a 32-volt system. If you've got one, then there are lots of pros, but one specific con: they've stopped making the parts. Last year, Xantrex dropped 32-volt chargers and inverters from all their lines, and Jabsco stopped making 32-volt freshwater pumps. Last year must have marked the end of the 'must-support' period for 32-volt systems, because that's when they suddenly stopped making stuff for that voltage. On the plus side, things last longer at higher voltages, so if you have a boat with a 32-volt system, you'll probably have more time to consider how to manage your migration to 24 (which is what we're doing now) or 48 (if you can wait for automotive standards to catch up). At 48 volts, at least you'd be able to retain all your wiring. Doug Hoople M/V Bomar 1963 Stephens Bros. 50 FDMY Sausalito, CA On Fri, 17 May 2002 17:12:19 -0400 Maurice Marwood <aepmem@bahamas.net.bs> wrote: What are the pros and cons with a 32 volt DC electrical system? Maurice Marwood aepmem@bahamas.net.bs _______________________________________________ http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawler-world-list
AJ
Arild Jensen
Sat, May 18, 2002 3:25 AM

Maurice Marwood asked:
What are the pros and cons with a 32 volt DC electrical system?

Doug Hoople replied:
If you don't already have one, then there are no pros to a 32-volt system.  If you've got one, then
there are lots of pros, but one specific con: they've stopped making the parts.
On the plus side, things last longer at higher voltages, so if you have a boat with a 32-volt
system, you'll probably have more time to consider how to manage your migration to 24v

Arild Replies
Doug is correct about  there  being some  benefits to an existing 32V system.
If you are facing the prospect of dealing with an existing system, either as refit or as part of a
purchase of a good used boat by yourself; here are a few things to keep in mind.

The problem of voltage drop is less severe at 32V than at lower voltages. That's the good part.
Many of the new lines of electronics - especially the commercial grade equipment will operate on
a wide range of voltages from 10 - 40 volts so no need to change. You can continue to use 32V
while installing a complete suite of new electronics. You simply install the correct fuse.
All of this equipment uses switch mode power supplies and they can tolerate any of the common
supply voltages.

Batteries are still available as are rebuilt alternators and starters. But not new stuff.
The biggest headache will be when some appliance which is driven by a 32V motor quits.
This will range from a macerator, to a DC fridge, blowers and windshield wipers.

THERE IS A SOLUTION!!

NEWMAR  is California makes DC to DC converters.  Actually the stuff is built by Analytic
Systems in Surrey BC but house labelled for Newmar.  You can get 32V - 24V or 24V - 32V
converters.  also 32V - 12V  etc.

I converted  on 80 foot fishing boat to 24V  because the new engine was digital and needed 24V.
All of the existing bridge equipment only needed a fuse replacement.

CAUTION!!!
Check the actual amperage being drawn in each circuit by measurement. When you drop from
32V  to 24 volts, the current goes up by 25%.  If the 32V circuit was already at the maximum
ampacity  of the wire, you cannot drop the voltage without risking a burnt wire.
At that point you decide if you can split the load, run a second wire, or rewire with a heavier
gauge.

If you are faced with upgrading only a few appliances but the whole 32V system is generally in
good shape,  batteries have lots of life left in them , and alternators and starters are good; then I
would recommend  using a DC - DC converter at point of use.

For example. You need to install a 24V vacu-flush but the whole boat is 32V
Easy. Install a Newmar converter right near the head and run the 32V power to it. Then run 24V
from converter to Vacuflsuh.

Assuming you have a chance to pick up a really great boat, well maintained, but it has an ageing
32V system  which may or may not last another 10 years.  Here is what  I would do.

Get a reliable and reasonable, not inflated, estimate of what a total conversion would cost.
Split the difference and reduce your offer by that amount. The justification is this.
You may be looking at expensive replacement anywhere from 6 months to three years down the
road.  However the whole system is actually working right now so you cannot point to a specific
failure.  Hence no complaint as such.

Realistically, any buyer will be hedging at the potential problems  he may face.  You on the other
hand is taking a proactive approach and making an offer anyway.  Don't just breathe a sigh of
relief if the offer is accepted.  Bank that money and plan ahead for doing a scheduled  phase out
over a number of years using the information I mentioned to begin with.
You will get a good boat at a reasonable price. You will not get a nasty surprise because you have
been forearmed  and planning to deal with  the conversion.

You know how to reach me if you have any more specific questions.
cheers

Arild

> Maurice Marwood asked: > What are the pros and cons with a 32 volt DC electrical system? > > Doug Hoople replied: > If you don't already have one, then there are no pros to a 32-volt system. If you've got one, then > there are lots of pros, but one specific con: they've stopped making the parts. > On the plus side, things last longer at higher voltages, so if you have a boat with a 32-volt > system, you'll probably have more time to consider how to manage your migration to 24v Arild Replies Doug is correct about there being some benefits to an existing 32V system. If you are facing the prospect of dealing with an existing system, either as refit or as part of a purchase of a good used boat by yourself; here are a few things to keep in mind. The problem of voltage drop is less severe at 32V than at lower voltages. That's the good part. Many of the new lines of electronics - especially the commercial grade equipment will operate on a wide range of voltages from 10 - 40 volts so no need to change. You can continue to use 32V while installing a complete suite of new electronics. You simply install the correct fuse. All of this equipment uses switch mode power supplies and they can tolerate any of the common supply voltages. Batteries are still available as are rebuilt alternators and starters. But not new stuff. The biggest headache will be when some appliance which is driven by a 32V motor quits. This will range from a macerator, to a DC fridge, blowers and windshield wipers. THERE IS A SOLUTION!! NEWMAR is California makes DC to DC converters. Actually the stuff is built by Analytic Systems in Surrey BC but house labelled for Newmar. You can get 32V - 24V or 24V - 32V converters. also 32V - 12V etc. I converted on 80 foot fishing boat to 24V because the new engine was digital and needed 24V. All of the existing bridge equipment only needed a fuse replacement. CAUTION!!! Check the actual amperage being drawn in each circuit by measurement. When you drop from 32V to 24 volts, the current goes up by 25%. If the 32V circuit was already at the maximum ampacity of the wire, you cannot drop the voltage without risking a burnt wire. At that point you decide if you can split the load, run a second wire, or rewire with a heavier gauge. If you are faced with upgrading only a few appliances but the whole 32V system is generally in good shape, batteries have lots of life left in them , and alternators and starters are good; then I would recommend using a DC - DC converter at point of use. For example. You need to install a 24V vacu-flush but the whole boat is 32V Easy. Install a Newmar converter right near the head and run the 32V power to it. Then run 24V from converter to Vacuflsuh. Assuming you have a chance to pick up a really great boat, well maintained, but it has an ageing 32V system which may or may not last another 10 years. Here is what I would do. Get a reliable and reasonable, not inflated, estimate of what a total conversion would cost. Split the difference and reduce your offer by that amount. The justification is this. You may be looking at expensive replacement anywhere from 6 months to three years down the road. However the whole system is actually working right now so you cannot point to a specific failure. Hence no complaint as such. Realistically, any buyer will be hedging at the potential problems he may face. You on the other hand is taking a proactive approach and making an offer anyway. Don't just breathe a sigh of relief if the offer is accepted. Bank that money and plan ahead for doing a scheduled phase out over a number of years using the information I mentioned to begin with. You will get a good boat at a reasonable price. You will not get a nasty surprise because you have been forearmed and planning to deal with the conversion. You know how to reach me if you have any more specific questions. cheers Arild