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Re: T&T: T&T LIcenses

T
Trainman484848@aol.com
Fri, Feb 3, 2006 2:58 PM

In a message dated 2/3/2006 12:00:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
trawlers-and-trawlering-request@lists.samurai.com writes:

Dale,  good question.  I can shed a little light, but not the entire  answer.
Over the years I have belonged to the U.S. Power Squadrons and the  U.S.
Coast Guard Auxiliary.  In fact, this is my 32nd year in the  Auxiliary.  I
was a member for several years before I learned that, at  least at that time,
the Auxiliary had an official policy stance AGAINST  mandatory licensing!

Now how, I wondered, could an organization  dedicated to boating safety, and
one whose members spent thousands of hours  each year teaching basic boating
safety courses, be AGAINST mandatory  boating safety education and licensing?
I can honestly state that I've  never received an explanation that convinced
me that was a useful  objective.  People trot out the "freedom of the seas"
issue, which is  bunk since skippers of commercial craft of all sizes must
have mandatory  licenses.

The only explanation which appears, at first blush, to have  some merit is
the observation that mandatory boating safety education and  licensing could
result in nothing more than an tax boost for the  state!  And the related
objection is that "auto motorist licensing  does not eliminate car
accidents"; which is true.  But the point  remains, as has been mentioned by
others on this thread, that an educated  boater will have a better chance of
an accident- or incident-free day on  the water.

I am active in on-the-water operations in the Auxiliary and  most weekends
give some hapless boater a tow back to a nearby marina or  dock where he can
purchase fuel, top off the batteries, add water to his  fresh-water cooling
system, etc., etc.  If the situation aboard the  other boat is dangerous, we
will often transfer their crew (family) aboard  our boat, and that provides a
chance to ask the skipper about his  problems.  The list is endless, and
mostly entirely preventable.  One guy tried to convince me that because most
marine gas V-8 engines are  automotive in origin, there should be no reason
why he had to give his  boat's engine any more concern than he did when
jumping into the family  car!  Honestly, he really believed that.

Then there are all  the non-mechanical issues that develop out on the water.
Again, I honestly  encountered a guy who believed that the tides were like
the skies:  sometimes you got decent, dry, comfortable weather and sometimes
it was  nasty out there; he felt the tides were just as random!  I told  him
about the freebie tide books at most bait shops and similar  marine-oriented
businesses and he was dumbfounded to learn that the tides  were not only
predictable but that someone had actually published tide  charts that would
tell you the tide heights and times of each  day!

Then there was the guy who proudly showed me his depth-sounder  that told him
how much anchor line to let out.  Anchor in 100' of  water, pay out 100' of
anchor line!!  To make sure the anchor was in  contact with the bottom!

The examples go on and on.  I honestly  don't know if the Auxiliary's
official policy stance is opposed to  mandatory education and licensing or
not.  Nor do I care.  It is  needed, it should be enacted.  It will save
lives and property.  It will cut down on Search and Rescue cases, which is
perhaps why some  ambulance-chasing Auxiliary coxswains oppose mandatory
licensing.  But  surely that argument isn't valid.

Bob Peterson
"Lopaka Nane"
47'  Lien Hwa CPMY
San Francisco

Hello Bob

Your not correct in the statement that " skippers of commercial craft  of all
sizes must
have mandatory licenses."  There is no licensing or  formal training required
for captains of commercial fishing boats regardless of  size there may be
some upper limit somewhere in the regs but the average 100' or  less boat does
not require a licensed operator. Tugboats and towboats under 26'  do not require
licensed operators regardless of HP or length of tow we build  some 25.5'
boats with up to 1000HP for exactly that reason they can handle tows  several
hundred feet long weighing several thousand tons without a licensed  operator.

I think the reason you will never see mandatory licensing is because out of
an estimated 77 million people that take to the water each year there were
only  676 boating related deaths in 2005. You also have to consider how many of
those  deaths were on power boats and how many were the result of operator
error the  number will shrink. The death toll has also been droping despite the
increase in  the number of boaters 676 in 2005 is the lowest since 1960.

Of the thousands of boats I see in operation there are only a handful I
would put in the moron category no amount of formal training or licensing will
replace common sense. I've held a masters license for over 20 years and I am not
in favor of mandatory licensing.

Brian Palmetto FL

In a message dated 2/3/2006 12:00:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, trawlers-and-trawlering-request@lists.samurai.com writes: Dale, good question. I can shed a little light, but not the entire answer. Over the years I have belonged to the U.S. Power Squadrons and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary. In fact, this is my 32nd year in the Auxiliary. I was a member for several years before I learned that, at least at that time, the Auxiliary had an official policy stance AGAINST mandatory licensing! Now how, I wondered, could an organization dedicated to boating safety, and one whose members spent thousands of hours each year teaching basic boating safety courses, be AGAINST mandatory boating safety education and licensing? I can honestly state that I've never received an explanation that convinced me that was a useful objective. People trot out the "freedom of the seas" issue, which is bunk since skippers of commercial craft of all sizes must have mandatory licenses. The only explanation which appears, at first blush, to have some merit is the observation that mandatory boating safety education and licensing could result in nothing more than an tax boost for the state! And the related objection is that "auto motorist licensing does not eliminate car accidents"; which is true. But the point remains, as has been mentioned by others on this thread, that an educated boater will have a better chance of an accident- or incident-free day on the water. I am active in on-the-water operations in the Auxiliary and most weekends give some hapless boater a tow back to a nearby marina or dock where he can purchase fuel, top off the batteries, add water to his fresh-water cooling system, etc., etc. If the situation aboard the other boat is dangerous, we will often transfer their crew (family) aboard our boat, and that provides a chance to ask the skipper about his problems. The list is endless, and mostly entirely preventable. One guy tried to convince me that because most marine gas V-8 engines are automotive in origin, there should be no reason why he had to give his boat's engine any more concern than he did when jumping into the family car! Honestly, he really believed that. Then there are all the non-mechanical issues that develop out on the water. Again, I honestly encountered a guy who believed that the tides were like the skies: sometimes you got decent, dry, comfortable weather and sometimes it was nasty out there; he felt the tides were just as random! I told him about the freebie tide books at most bait shops and similar marine-oriented businesses and he was dumbfounded to learn that the tides were not only predictable but that someone had actually published tide charts that would tell you the tide heights and times of each day! Then there was the guy who proudly showed me his depth-sounder that told him how much anchor line to let out. Anchor in 100' of water, pay out 100' of anchor line!! To make sure the anchor was in contact with the bottom! The examples go on and on. I honestly don't know if the Auxiliary's official policy stance is opposed to mandatory education and licensing or not. Nor do I care. It is needed, it should be enacted. It will save lives and property. It will cut down on Search and Rescue cases, which is perhaps why some ambulance-chasing Auxiliary coxswains oppose mandatory licensing. But surely that argument isn't valid. Bob Peterson "Lopaka Nane" 47' Lien Hwa CPMY San Francisco Hello Bob Your not correct in the statement that " skippers of commercial craft of all sizes must have mandatory licenses." There is no licensing or formal training required for captains of commercial fishing boats regardless of size there may be some upper limit somewhere in the regs but the average 100' or less boat does not require a licensed operator. Tugboats and towboats under 26' do not require licensed operators regardless of HP or length of tow we build some 25.5' boats with up to 1000HP for exactly that reason they can handle tows several hundred feet long weighing several thousand tons without a licensed operator. I think the reason you will never see mandatory licensing is because out of an estimated 77 million people that take to the water each year there were only 676 boating related deaths in 2005. You also have to consider how many of those deaths were on power boats and how many were the result of operator error the number will shrink. The death toll has also been droping despite the increase in the number of boaters 676 in 2005 is the lowest since 1960. Of the thousands of boats I see in operation there are only a handful I would put in the moron category no amount of formal training or licensing will replace common sense. I've held a masters license for over 20 years and I am not in favor of mandatory licensing. Brian Palmetto FL