follow up on sea anchor
----- Original Message ----
From: jean-pierre dufour jpjdufour@yahoo.com
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:47:53 PM
Subject: Re: Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 38, Issue 4
Thank-you Brian for your response. I read with interest the story of Eclipse. I hope eclipse got recovered...
It appears to me that the serie drogue still allows significant motion and must be set from the stern.I still feel it would be the best tool in a survival storm situation.
In my case, since I cannot access the aft swim platform in heavy seas, I am left with only the parachute type Fiorentino set from the bow. I have 2 big bow eyes and would set the bridle with shackles prerigged.
Still trying to post on boatdesign forum.
Jean Pierre.
http://dominocatamaran.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message ----
From: "power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com" power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 12:00:07 AM
Subject: Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 38, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
- Bottom Paint (George Brandes)
- serie drogue. (jean-pierre dufour)
- Re: serie drogue. (bill)
- Sea Anchors and Serie Drogue. (brian eiland)
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:05:38 -0400
From: "George Brandes" signal46@gmail.com
Subject: [PCW] Bottom Paint
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 000001c89726$2272f610$6758e230$@com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
We use Sea Hawk Islands 77 PLUS or Bio cop TF (same paint). It really works
well in warm waters of Florida and Bahamas. It's like Micron 66 but it can
be used in fresh water as Micron 66 cannot (but it's a great paint, works
even when your boat does not move)
In another note, the cooper coat works but you constantly have to scrape the
bottom to expose the fresh copper to activate.
Hope this helps.
George
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 15:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: jean-pierre dufour jpjdufour@yahoo.com
Subject: [PCW] serie drogue.
To: malcon tennant malcom@tennantdesign.co.nz, PWC
power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 639744.56632.qm@web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I thought it would be an interesting debate,
First about the superiority of the serie drogue as a sea anchor over the more commonly used parachute.
Second about setting the sea anchor from the stern.
I thought I had a good case for setting from the bow: here are my arguments and the inventor,
Donald Jordan's response.
I would like to hear from fellow sailors and from Malcom Tennant.
Jean Pierre
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Donald Jordan Donaldjordan@att.net
To: jean-pierre dufour jpjdufour@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 4:44:26 PM
Subject: Re: drogue from the bow
DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
Hello
I know you will not like this answer, but I
definitely do not recommend the bow. The broad reason is that all boats must be
designed to be stable moving forward and are thus unstable moving
backward.
The drogue will not foul the propellers. Many
multihulls with a wide bridle have tried sea anchors from the bow with
absolutely no success and in a serious storm with disaster. All multihulls
with the drogue from the stern have ridden out the storms in relative
comfort. Sorry, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: jean-pierre
dufour
To: donaldjordan@att.net
Cc: serie drogue
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: drogue from the bow
Hi Don.
I am very impressed with your invention the serie drogue to use as a sea anchor.
I have read your literature and understand all the reasons why you recommend setting the drogue at the stern. But I think I have good argument for a bow-setting in my case, as I explained Dave.
Here attached a side view and the hull of my boat designed by Malcom Tennant.
1- This boat has no sailing rig and has a lot more windage aft than forward.
2- The aft cockpit has an aft-facing curve and will take wind coming from aft like a sail. So will the flybridge.
3- The aft has no reserve buoyancy and will take poorly coming seas.
4- The aft swim platform is unprotected, and I will never get down there in heavy seas to make any adjustment or retrieve the drogue.
4-There will be no easy way to recover the drogue aft. On the contrary, I have a strong windlass and a large bow roller at the bow. (we are an old sailing couple, and on a 35000Kg boat, the drogue will be heavy)
5- In addition, at the stern, during recovery from the stern platform, the drogue would hang down between the 2 props which would render the engines unusable, and the drogue could get caught in the prop.
6-So, I do believe in my case, a serie drogue from the stern can cause some serious problems, and setting from bow with a large bridle is a better way to go, but I would like your opinion.
I would add that with very long and narrow hull and a wide bridle set at the most forward, the boat will stay very still, contrary to most sailing catamarans who have hulls fat at the center in order to allow to turn around the center of gravity.
Cheers.
Jean Pierre.
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 16:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: bill wcz4399@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] serie drogue.
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 533827.3237.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
JP,
In a nutshell your instincts, re drogue vs sea anchor,
coelesque with mine and my brief experience laying to
sea anchor.
Do it from the bow, from the direction of least
resistance. Your boat and mine is designed to pierce
seas coming from the front, not the back.
All bridling reinforcement on my boats is on the bows.
Adjustment from there is a given as well. Anchor
bridling or sea-anchor bridling is from the same
strong points. Same fairleads and attachments.
It is a natural to point the bows into rough seas
either lying to ground tackle or sea anchor.
Backward drift with a properly sized sea anchor is
minimal...negligent compared to the drift resultant
from the speed and force of wave action against your
(and my) unprotected and unfaired sterns and adjacent
structure.
The drogue theorey is a 'running with it' theory; sea
anchor theory is 'stop the boat' to suvive or rest.
Like reefing a sail, best done early. I'll stop first
and rest.
Sea anchor from the bows will also not fowl the props.
Recovery from the bows is a natural excercise.
When does Domino launch?
Very best,
Bill
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:01:28 -0400
From: "brian eiland" beiland@usa.net
Subject: [PCW] Sea Anchors and Serie Drogue.
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Message-ID: 969mDFcaC0954S20.1207447288@cmsweb20.cms.usa.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
------ Original Message ------
Received: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:21:12 PM EDT
From: jean-pierre dufour jpjdufour@yahoo.com
To: malcon tennant malcom@tennantdesign.co.nz, PWC
power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: [PCW] serie drogue.
I thought it would be an interesting debate,
First about the superiority of the serie drogue as a sea anchor over the more
commonly used parachute.
Second about setting the sea anchor from the stern.
I thought I had a good case for setting from the bow: here are my arguments
and the inventor,
Donald Jordan's response.
I would like to hear from fellow sailors and from Malcom Tennant.
Jean Pierre
Brian replied:
I assume you are looking for as many replies as you might get. So can I
recommend that you post this same info on several different forums, as often
you may get some responses on one forum that you may never see on another.
Can I recommend you visit this forum subject thread I started and have not
found time to get back to:
Parachute Anchors, Para-Anchor, Sea Anchor
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10448
Would like to have you post your info there and reopen that discussion
concurrently. You might even cross-reference postings to heat discusions up
I think you will find that I am partial to the bow deployed sea anchor as
well. And I believe it is backed up with far more documentation than the
drogues.
Good hunting thruout the internet community
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
End of Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 38, Issue 4
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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