From: "Joe Engel" <joe@jre.com> To: <GYMKIDD319@aol.com>, <trawler-world-list@lists.samurai.com> Subject: TWL: RE: Survey Tip >A novice buyer is at the mercy of the information they get from their surveyor. So get a good, tough surveyor. I've mentioned this before on this list, but since there seem to be more people inquiring about the various aspects of buying a boat, I'll mention it again, for what it's worth.... A smart thing to do if you're a novice buyer, or simply not very experienced or knowledgeable about the type of boat you're wanting to buy, is that in addition to the best surveyor(s) you can find, try to involve a friend or acquaintance who's very knowledgeable about the type of boat you're interested in, but has no vested interest in your buying the boat. We did this when we made an offer on a 1973 (fiberglass) Grand Banks 36. My wife and I had considerable experience in our 17' Arima fishing boat, and we'd been running 60' steel narrowboats on the canals in the UK for years. But other than a week's charter with a GB36, trawlering was a world we knew little about. The boat was in California, and our broker went down with us for the sea trial, hull, and engine surveys. And the owner's broker was there, too, of course, for the buyer's inspection and sea trial (but not the surveys). But figuring it was in the interests of both brokers to see us buy the boat, we asked a friend who has worked for one of the marine industry's leading engine and generator manufacturers for well over 20 years to accompany us at our expense to look over the boat as well. He didn't care if we bought this particular boat or not; his mission was simply to keep us from buying a "bad" boat. What we wanted him to do was bring a sense of objectivity to the process that we couldn't bring ourselves due to lack of experience, knowledge, and a degree of "buyers' excitement." He could look at a wiring panel or something in the engine room and say, "That doesn't look right to me," where I would probably not know the difference unless the boat was actually taking on water or in the process of catching fire. Old engines and transmissions tend to leak oil. I knew this from working on older vehicles, but what I didn't know is how much fluid leakage is "okay" on an older marine engine and transmission. My friend, on the other hand, has spent most of his working life dealing with marine engines, generators, and drive systems. He could look at the engines in this boat and say, "they look pretty good," or "I don't like the way this is leaking," or "that exhaust hose is going to give problems pretty soon," or whatever. So it was well worth the airfare and motel room to have our friend come along. Not only did he give us a realistic idea of what we would be getting into with this particular boat, but he took a lot of the worry and uncertainty out of the whole process. My wife and I didn't feel quite so alone in making our decision. We ended up buying the boat based to a large degree on our friend's assessment that, while it was an older boat that needed of a lot of things (and what boat doesn't, old or new?), none of the things it needed would be overwhelming in scope, and they wouldn't prevent us from using and enjoying the boat, which of course was the purpose for buying it in the first place. Our hull and engine surveyors did a very good job in my estimation, and I would never recommend replacing their function with a friend, no matter how knowledgeable he or she may be. But a boat, like a house, can be a pretty dramatic purchase in terms of the money and the amount of work that might have to be done. If you have sufficient boating experience to take what the surveyors tell you, combine it with your own observations, and make an intelligent yea or nay decision, that's great. But a "newbie" to the boat-buying process, particularly someone considering the purchase of a relatively complex boat like a trawler, can help aleviate the potential confusion or indecision about the boat by involving someone outside the normal boat-buying process. That's not to say there aren't honest brokers who will really try to help you, or good surveyors who will really tell you what's going on. But if you know someone with a lot of experience with the general type of boat you're intersted in, getting them to sit in on the inspection, trial, and surveys could be one of the best decisions you've ever made. It certainly was in our case. _______________ C. Marin Faure GB36 "La Perouse" Bellingham, WA

"Remember, governments produce no wealth; they must plunder your
wealth to exist, and then, politicians who live off your money claim
the right to control your life. The solution: Promote individual
responsibility and fight for more freedom through less government."

Just in case anyone needs a GOOD surveyor, I can heartily recommend Robert Eberle, New Bern NC, 252-633-4280. I got 19 pages of incredibly useful detail. Very professional. I am confident that even on a brand new pristine boat he would find something that would allow you to walk away if you wanted, or negotiate a lower price. Maurice Marwood aepmem@bahamas.net.bs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Remember, governments produce no wealth; they must plunder your wealth to exist, and then, politicians who live off your money claim the right to control your life. The solution: Promote individual responsibility and fight for more freedom through less government." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~