To all, Georgs thank you for the offer to allow us "in fairness" to reply. I do appreciate it but there is nothing "fair" about this. No fault of yours of course. You have no idea how I/John hesitate greatly to make any post at all yet this was recently brought to my attention and the truth will set you free they say. If there is any value to this effort, it may be to the readers who are subject to this perpetrators nonsense. As for the antagonist.... I am afraid this will not end well for you - but you chose the wrong guy and wrong company to libel. You do not even know me, what I have built in the past and what we are capable of - but our clients do and we will discuss that below among other things. Now..... I do not think this character has actually operated any of his said designs as nearly all, if not all, were failures or had such substantial changes by the yards that knew better as to make them different boat altogether. Certainly his involvement past taking some money up front has been zero with the clients and yards. There may be an exception yet to be discovered but certainly not enough to sway the preponderance of the evidence and lawsuits that are trying to be served against him. While he is a captain in the past it seems, you would not want your airline's pilot actually building the jet nor designing the jet you travel in would you? Hmmm.... If you need a captain, then by all means consider his services... We rely on decades of experience in our team of builders and known tenured naval architects. Simple as that. Our partners are front and center and respected. There is no team I can see in his case. Just fear and hate. We know where that gets you. We are builders, marketers, engineers and architects together as a team. That is how business works of course. Not sitting behind a website that has not had an update in 4 years at least, with no way to even pursue what you propose to sell... sounds like a set up to me. Or a trap? We are shocked and disappointed to be attacked in such a way. I should not honor this with a listed response other than we categorically deny all aspects of the inane diatribe and label them in serious terms as clear libel that is actionable. Yet the perpetrator hides in Canada from US and Chinese legal teams. So what is a person to do? ALL past and current clients are in our corner and they are friends and associates. Bill Fleenor, the named supposed injured party in the unfortunate text that we are responding to, has recently posted to explain the truth and this cyber terrorist's other past clients would have a similar response. The owner of the 65' project mention, that we saved from his abandonment, is also a friend and working with us now. We can line them up one by one with no exception. Pure nonsense on his part. We have no use at all for his "designs" as they are poor, overweight and misunderstood even by the said "designer". Everything about our boats are different than his. We do not even use the same hulls in the Pacific Expedition Yachts range as his "designs" call for. Ours are far superior. Even "his" past projects do not use "his" hulls as they do not work. Case in point.... John added the Z-Bow to the clients previous boats and created a 44 waterline on a 45' boat, they are not this other characters invention and can be found on many commercial cats and ferries. There is nothing even in the previous projects hull dynamics today that reflects what was in his first design. They have been fixed by John and a team of smart experts. They are not even wave piercing and his current web-site ignorantly proclaims. He has no idea what they are nor did his early marketing include them until added later by John. The Chinese builds ended in dead ends as those yards could not fix his bad designs. So all of these supposed "injured parties" are currently friends and associates of of John and I as well as the company. We alone stand behind them where none would. If any others have stood in their defense and worked to recover their projects from disaster please step forward. Further our current Pacific Expedition clients will be happy to discuss us and the projects with anyone, anytime. We are very busy and very excited about Pacific Expedition Yachts future and current projects. Pacific Expedition Yachts current customers have no dealing with this character. I am a very successful business and family man who cannot stand by and allow such abuse. We have zero debt and are American Made providing jobs in a very depressed region. We allow good folks to pay for food and housing and daily needs for their families in a very difficult time both on the Oregon coast and across the county. I am as proud of that as I am of anything that we do. We will be attending the Seattle boat show this weekend and placing final orders on new Zeus Cummins pod drive packages for all of our PE60's under construction as that is the direction of the clients. http://www.cmdmarine.com/prop/zeusover.html The point here is that we have excellent integration and reputation with all of our vendors. We went through extensive reviews from both a technical and company respect with Cummins USA to become vendors for the Zeus systems. It is no trivial endeavor and I am sure this shell of a person/company could not make the cut or even understand the process. We can and did and will continue to excel as that is what we do. Pacific Expedition Yachts has nothing to do with the bottom feeding nonsense in the power cat world and what I see on this list on occasion. I have not the time nor the inclination to pursuing this further. It is always a balance to decide if one should defend himself or leave it alone and move on. I have to say what I have to as a man, father and business owner. I do understand you buyers need a place for information and there is often a lack of direction in the power cat category as it is somewhat new in comparison to monohulls or trawlers. I can see it is an easy place to ask a question and offers a form of entertainment even. I would offer that in due respect to the list and Georgs, this is not that place a buyer should be asking the most important questions. General info is handy yes but please, go see the builder and his shop and talk to ALL his clients. Buy the tickets as a small investment and go see the maker if they have satisfied your early interest and the references check out. Top builders will provide you contacts for clients and that is how the world works as you all know. We do not take part in forums typically as serious prospects contact us directly and we speak to them in some cases for more than a year answering hundreds of specific questions that address their issue only. To offer up "expert" advice as this attacker does is really self serving and means nothing. In the spirit of Bentsen's polical Kennedy comment from the late '80s... I say this "You're no Malcolm Tennant" rest his soul. So stop acting like you have something to offer. Park the expert position and go back to being a captain would be my suggestion. We all see through you. I am actually embarrassed for you. Your attack has done nothing but undermine your position whatever that was...I cannot see you showing your face here again and being taken seriously. We all like forums for what they are but usually the answers are too general to be of any specific help to anyone looking to purchase. 99% of the questions can be answered with "it depends" and then a cup of coffee and some time to discuss is in order. Our new shop in Astoria is wide open, #3 Hanger Way in Astoria Oregon at the mouth of the Columbia River and the Pacific Ocean. Our clients are willing to discuss us and their great projects with anyone - please contact us and we can put you in direct contact with them. If you would like to visit just call or email us so we can give your name to Port security. I cannot ignore libel and need to regretfully note at this point that this individual has emailed me personally in the past and threatened me, even mentioning my family if you can imagine that. In my heart I hope that he gets the help he needs yet I will defend myself and family and brand. His "company" is nothing more than his laptop in his residence in a country that provides him legal insulation and no recourse for injured parties. Our company is in a 40K sq foot government location in the USA with solid exciting projects on the floor. The projects have solid engineering and naval architecture. We build on digital weight cells to ensure the boats hit their waterlines and constantly improve all aspects of the designs and boats. Cabinets are on site, appliances are on site, Zeus drives coming soon, and all other method and manner of products needed to build a boat including a super and growing crew. What is it that he is offering again?? I am not clear.....?? What value does he add, what can he do, or build or effect for a client?? Where is his shop, his success, his clients? What are you doing here I ask.....really what?? Would you know resin if you stepped in it? You stepping in something, that is for sure, and it is clearly not resin.... If you sign a contract with him and pay him money, then what exactly happens?? We tend to order core, resin and cross-woven Kevlar laminates and start building...but that's just us. Tell us.... how do you go about it? The building part that is.... I am waiting? Hmmm the sound of silence. Here he is even this month in January trolling for investors and someone with "business experience". A laughable post on Craigslist. He will likely delete so look for a dead link soon.....hurry hurry Graham.... http://vancouver.fr.craigslist.ca/van/bus/1549418658.html I have copied the contents of the post for those interested as he will have to delete it I suppose to save face... In it he says this... "I am seeking an Investor/Partner with a strong financial and business management background to take substantial equity in the company and receive a salary as the company CFO. _____ We are a low overhead business that downsized to a *home office *and the use of part time engineers and naval architects before the economic downturn." So that means your laptop and your bedroom? Nice to work in your PJ's?.... Nice set up. Now please note for the record easily found online....His business was dissolved in 2007 - so trolling for investors with a "new" design but with a dissolved corporation?? I am sure there is a good answer to this but I am really not that interested..... *Corporation Name(s):* TRAWLERCAT MARINE INC. *Mailing Address:* *[Latest address on file]* *Care of:* *Street:* 19 - 7128 - 18 AVENUE *City:* BURNABY *Province:* British Columbia *Postal Code:* V3N1H1 *Country:* Canada *Status* *Date* Dissolved - Section 210 of CBCA 2007/05/22 Moreover, you might not want to even talk to him about "his" designs - if you do and decide not to build with him for a trivial reason such as he is not a builder and has no place to build....he may just sue you directly! Far fetched - not so! See here - he took 8k from a client and then went on to sue him after the client backed out because this "designer" had no builder or yard. Just a small issue to overcome..... http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2002/2002fct1181/2002fct1181.html My counsel to this person would been more useful to them many years ago but here it is none the less. The profit and income you take in is directly related to the value you deliver. You need to see that your "designs" really are not valuable at all. They are just a promise of something bigger, a shadow of the opportunity to create value. A bridge between your clients dream and the actual boat. You have spent your life chasing and abusing those you feel are stealing from you when you should see that the world does not reward creativity for creativity's sake. It rewards action and building value and offering benefits to consumers in 3D real life products. If you cannot get to that, then your "designs" are of little or no value to anyone. Steve Jobs is a great designer, but that is not why he is a household name. He went further and created value for consumers. Do see the edges? I hope so. It will serve you well. Think on that for a bit in your home office. Georgs, I am sorry to see this on your list as it is of no fault of yours of course. I am encouraged by your website and activities and we appreciate you involvement and offering this tool. With all due respect could you please delete me from the list as there is no value here for us our our clients. Maybe we can revisit it in the future. In the meantime, if any interested parties would like to reach John or I direct, our contact information can be found at www.pacificexpedition.com and our current status can be found at http://pacificexpedition.blogspot.com/. I will not be reading any further post so there will be no responses from me to any further libel other than legal if I can pursue and I do have substantial assets at my disposal to do so. I will have my counsel keep an eye on it as that is what we pay them for and we have boats to build and families to care for. In the meantime, our doors are wide open, our designs are proprietary and protected and this particular issue, in our professional view, is closed. Sorry for the limited editing and form.... Trust but verify...... If nothing else here is something that he will understand... "*C'est la vie my friend, C'est la vie"* All the best Patrick Meyer www.pacificexpedition.com On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 9:00 PM, <power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com>wrote: > Send Power-Catamaran mailing list submissions to > power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/power-catamaran > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > power-catamaran-owner@lists.samurai.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Power-Catamaran digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. > (Georgs Kolesnikovs) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:00:41 -0500 > From: Georgs Kolesnikovs <georgs@trawlersandtrawlering.com> > To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com > Subject: [PCW] Trawlercat Marine versus Pacific Expedition Yachts > Message-ID: > <3B259310-84D8-4FF0-8383-D0F677AEEA36@trawlersandtrawlering.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > All hands-- > > Power Catamaran List is not the forum for warfare between competing > designers or builders. No more posts in this thread or on this subject > will be permitted. In the interest of fairness, I will allow John Shaw > and Patrick Meyer and anyone else named by Graham Pfister to post one > message each in response to what Graham Pfister has posted. Then this > subject will be shut down. > > --Georgs > > Georgs Kolesnikovs > Power Catamaran World > http://www.powercatworld.com > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Power-Catamaran Mailing List > > End of Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 57, Issue 24 > ***********************************************