Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you some information below to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not effect the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club’s season championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long Series’ at www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the scoring problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring systems, and language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org; wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
+
Sunday Series
+
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can tally the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454
ednightracing mailing list
ednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
ttp://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
the long series url has changed
http://raceadmin.ussailing.org/Rules/Long_Series.htm
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.comwrote:
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does
not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if
you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the
proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you
some information below to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system. ******
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not
effect the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in
Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club’s season
championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not
compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races
than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long Series’ at **
www.ussailing.org/rules/longserieshttp://www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries
- for an explanation of the scoring problems that occur in such series,
alternative scoring systems, and language for sailing instructions to
implement them.*
**
**
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get
your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per
se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring
system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers
the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the following
races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series**
+
Sunday Series**
+
Memorial Day Regatta**
Guy Multon Regatta**
Labor Day Regatta**
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race**
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on
the following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only**
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on
the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only**
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be
his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in
any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can
tally the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454
Wednightracing mailing listWednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.orghttp://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Remind me again, what are we voting for?
Components of trophies? I think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the club and cover the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet.
Scoring outlined? Vote No. Reason – little or no ‘penalty’ for not racing. Whether you race or not won’t make much of a difference. The scores will be so close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.
Lee
From: Wednightracing [mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Osman Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org; wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you some information below to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not effect the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club’s season championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long Series’ at http://www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the scoring problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring systems, and language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org; wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
Sunday Series
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can tally the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
I don't have a boat entered in the fleet racing so I don't have a stake in the fleet's decision regarding scoring. I do, however (no surprise) have an opinion.
If the main concern is to reward those who show up most often, then you would probably want to go with the Low Point system. Those skippers who cannot, or choose not to, show up for every race will have virtually no chance to medal.
On the other hand, if you wish to foster participation, you would most likely opt for one of the alternate scoring systems outlined at USSailing. How you break down the season and series scoring will reflect your approach to participation.
The Ensign Fleet has historically used 60% participation as a benchmark although recently they have moved to 50% as their numbers who race have dropped.
The Sonar Fleet, on the other hand, expects all boats to show up every week. I can assure you that, while this encourages every skipper to be on the line each week, it really results in active participation by about 60% of the fleet. The others, who cannot race every week, never finish in the top three even though some of them are the best racers in the fleet.
Personally, I would advocate using the Low Point system for each of the three (or two for the cruisers) series, and the High Point for the season awards. It may make scoring cumbersome but it seems to be the fairest way to encourage participation while rewarding the best racers.
I like competing and winning as much as the next but I try to keep in mind Jack's remarks - "I spend a lot of time and a lot of money to win a $5.00 PICKLE DISH". In the end, we're all trying our best, but excelling while fostering good sportsmanship within our sailing community is far more fulfilling than gaming the system to win.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Luce
To: 'Osman Coskun Kurtulus' ; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org ; wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org ; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Remind me again, what are we voting for?
Components of trophies? I think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the club and cover the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet.
Scoring outlined? Vote No. Reason – little or no ‘penalty’ for not racing. Whether you race or not won’t make much of a difference. The scores will be so close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.
Lee
From: Wednightracing [mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Osman Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org; wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you some information below to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not effect the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club’s season championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long Series’ at www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the scoring problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring systems, and language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org; wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
Sunday Series
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can tally the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454
_______________________________________________Wednightracing mailing listWednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.orghttp://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Hmmm... Sounds like an interesting approach. I think sailwave supports the
High Point system and you can score with alternative systems with little
hassle.
Re Jacks quote I believe it was something like $5K to with a $5 pickle dish.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Gary Tenenbaum gtenen@optonline.netwrote:
**
I don't have a boat entered in the fleet racing so I don't have a stake in
the fleet's decision regarding scoring. I do, however (no surprise) have an
opinion.
If the main concern is to reward those who show up most often, then you
would probably want to go with the Low Point system. Those skippers who
cannot, or choose not to, show up for every race will have virtually no
chance to medal.
On the other hand, if you wish to foster participation, you would most
likely opt for one of the alternate scoring systems outlined at USSailing.
How you break down the season and series scoring will reflect your approach
to participation.
The Ensign Fleet has historically used 60% participation as a benchmark
although recently they have moved to 50% as their numbers who race have
dropped.
The Sonar Fleet, on the other hand, expects all boats to show up every
week. I can assure you that, while this encourages every skipper to be on
the line each week, it really results in active participation by about 60%
of the fleet. The others, who cannot race every week, never finish in the
top three even though some of them are the best racers in the fleet.
Personally, I would advocate using the Low Point system for each of the
three (or two for the cruisers) series, and the High Point for the season
awards. It may make scoring cumbersome but it seems to be the fairest way
to encourage participation while rewarding the best racers.
I like competing and winning as much as the next but I try to keep in mind
Jack's remarks - "I spend a lot of time and a lot of money to win a $5.00
PICKLE DISH". In the end, we're all trying our best, but excelling
while fostering good sportsmanship within our sailing community is far more
fulfilling than gaming the system to win.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Luce luce01@optonline.net
To: 'Osman Coskun Kurtulus' kurtulusoc@aol.com ;
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org ;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org ; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising
Fleet
Remind me again, what are we voting for?****
Components of trophies? I think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the
club and cover the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet.****
Scoring outlined? Vote No. Reason – little or no ‘penalty’ for not racing.
Whether you race or not won’t make much of a difference. The scores will be
so close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.**
**
Lee****
From: Wednightracing [mailto:
wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Osman
Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising
Fleet**
Hi Everyone,****
Little progress report: ****
I have 14 votes so far. ****
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does
not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if
you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the
proposal below. ****
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you
some information below to review.****
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:****
14 SCORING**
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system. ****
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11* "Changes in 2013-2016 does not
effect the below"*****
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series:* The scoring systems in
Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club’s season
championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not
compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races
than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long Series’ at **
www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries*http://www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries
- for an explanation of the scoring problems that occur in such series,
alternative scoring systems, and language for sailing instructions to
implement them.*****
Best Osman ****
Osman Kurtulus****
16 Sunset Park ****
Montclair,NJ 07043****
(917)-774-7454****
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet****
Hello Racers,****
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get
your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating. ****
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per
se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring
system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.****
TROPHIES:****
CLUB Trophy ****
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers
the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the following
races/regattas,****
Wednesday Night Series****
+****
Sunday Series****
+****
Memorial Day Regatta****
Guy Multon Regatta****
Labor Day Regatta****
NBC Last Chance Regatta****
Hudson River Long Distance Race****
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy****
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on
the following races/regattas,****
Sunday Series only****
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy****
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this based on
the following races/regattas,****
Wednesday Night Series only****
SCORING:****
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be
his back up at his absence)****
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1****
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in
any race and each DNF will be scored 4)****
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1****
So what say you?****
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can
tally the votes to move forward.****
Best****
Osman Kurtulus****
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing) ****
(917)-774-7454****
_______________________________________________****
Wednightracing mailing list****
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org****
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org****
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Woody Allen had it right -- "half of life is just showing up." Annie
Hall, I think.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Baumes eric.baumes@gmail.com
To: Gary Tenenbaum gtenen@optonline.net
Cc: mlgraphics1 mlgraphics1@gmail.com; wednightracing
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; Cruising Fleet Racers
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 11:35 am
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising
Fleet
Hmmm... Sounds like an interesting approach. I think sailwave supports
the High Point system and you can score with alternative systems with
little hassle.
Re Jacks quote I believe it was something like $5K to with a $5 pickle
dish.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Gary Tenenbaum
<gtenen@optonline.net> wrote:
I don't have a boat entered in the fleet racing so I don't have a stake
in the fleet's decision regarding scoring. I do, however (no surprise)
have an opinion.
If the main concern is to reward those who show up most often, then you
would probably want to go with the Low Point system. Those skippers
who cannot, or choose not to, show up for every race will have
virtually no chance to medal.
On the other hand, if you wish to foster participation, you would most
likely opt for one of the alternate scoring systems outlined at
USSailing. How you break down the season and series scoring will
reflect your approach to participation.
The Ensign Fleet has historically used 60% participation as a benchmark
although recently they have moved to 50% as their numbers who race have
dropped.
The Sonar Fleet, on the other hand, expects all boats to show up every
week. I can assure you that, while this encourages every skipper to be
on the line each week, it really results in active participation by
about 60% of the fleet. The others, who cannot race every week, never
finish in the top three even though some of them are the best racers in
the fleet.
Personally, I would advocate using the Low Point system for each of the
three (or two for the cruisers) series, and the High Point for the
season awards. It may make scoring cumbersome but it seems to be the
fairest way to encourage participation while rewarding the best racers.
I like competing and winning as much as the next but I try to keep in
mind Jack's remarks - "I spend a lot of time and a lot of money to win
a $5.00 PICKLE DISH". In the end, we're all trying our best, but
excelling while fostering good sportsmanship within our sailing
community is far more fulfilling than gaming the system to win.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Luce
To: 'Osman Coskun Kurtulus' ;
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org ;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org ; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for
Cruising Fleet
Remind me again, what are we voting for? Components of trophies? I
think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the club and cover
the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet. Scoring outlined?
Vote No. Reason – little or no ‘penalty’ for not racing. Whether you
race or not won’t make much of a difference. The scores will be so
close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.
Lee From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of
Osman Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising
Fleet Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate
this does not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more
inclusive if you cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO
to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you
some information below to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty
system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does
not effect the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems
in Appendix A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a
club’s season championship held over several weeks or months, in
which some boats do not compete in all of the races and in which more
boats compete in some races than in others. See ‘Scoring a Long
Series’ at www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the
scoring problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring
systems, and language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus <kurtulusoc@aol.com>
To: wednightracing <wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org>;
wednightracing <wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org>
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising
Fleet Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted
to get your input on couple of notions that we have been
contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft
committee per se; and the following changes which we propose to
improve our scoring system and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing
season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers
the entire season. We will score this with the combination of the
following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
+
Sunday Series
+
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this
based on the following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet’s award and we will score this
based on the following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet.
(I will be his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats
start in any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I
can tally the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454
_______________________________________________Wednightracing mailing
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I was wondering if anyone has taken the time to apply the three proposed
scoring methods to actual race data? You might find it an interesting
exercise. Attached are some real-life numbers to play with.
Sure sounds like we're talking ourselves into not scoring Cruising Fleet
racing this year. Maybe that's not a bad idea. Seven of the 2013 winners
didn't bother to attend the Awards Dinner last December, and Fleet winners
got paper certificates at the Pot Luck Dinner.
Lee
From: Eric Baumes [mailto:eric.baumes@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:35 AM
To: Gary Tenenbaum
Cc: Lee Luce; Osman Coskun Kurtulus; Cruising Fleet Racers; wednightracing;
mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hmmm... Sounds like an interesting approach. I think sailwave supports the
High Point system and you can score with alternative systems with little
hassle.
Re Jacks quote I believe it was something like $5K to with a $5 pickle dish.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Gary Tenenbaum gtenen@optonline.net
wrote:
I don't have a boat entered in the fleet racing so I don't have a stake in
the fleet's decision regarding scoring. I do, however (no surprise) have an
opinion.
If the main concern is to reward those who show up most often, then you
would probably want to go with the Low Point system. Those skippers who
cannot, or choose not to, show up for every race will have virtually no
chance to medal.
On the other hand, if you wish to foster participation, you would most
likely opt for one of the alternate scoring systems outlined at USSailing.
How you break down the season and series scoring will reflect your approach
to participation.
The Ensign Fleet has historically used 60% participation as a benchmark
although recently they have moved to 50% as their numbers who race have
dropped.
The Sonar Fleet, on the other hand, expects all boats to show up every week.
I can assure you that, while this encourages every skipper to be on the line
each week, it really results in active participation by about 60% of the
fleet. The others, who cannot race every week, never finish in the top
three even though some of them are the best racers in the fleet.
Personally, I would advocate using the Low Point system for each of the
three (or two for the cruisers) series, and the High Point for the season
awards. It may make scoring cumbersome but it seems to be the fairest way
to encourage participation while rewarding the best racers.
I like competing and winning as much as the next but I try to keep in mind
Jack's remarks - "I spend a lot of time and a lot of money to win a $5.00
PICKLE DISH". In the end, we're all trying our best, but excelling while
fostering good sportsmanship within our sailing community is far more
fulfilling than gaming the system to win.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Luce mailto:luce01@optonline.net
To: 'Osman Coskun Kurtulus' mailto:kurtulusoc@aol.com ;
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org ; wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Remind me again, what are we voting for?
Components of trophies? I think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the
club and cover the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet.
Scoring outlined? Vote No. Reason - little or no 'penalty' for not racing.
Whether you race or not won't make much of a difference. The scores will be
so close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.
Lee
From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of
Osman Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does
not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if you
cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you some information below
to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not effect
the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in Appendix
A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club's season
championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not
compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races
than in others. See 'Scoring a Long Series' at
http://www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries
www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the scoring
problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring systems, and
language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454 tel:%28917%29-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get
your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per
se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring system
and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers the entire
season. We will score this with the combination of the following
races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
Sunday Series
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet's award and we will score this based on the
following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet's award and we will score this based on the
following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be
his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in
any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can tally
the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454 tel:%28917%29-774-7454
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org
What other fleet has 9 boats receiving awards? I'm not sure there are 9
boats in any of the other fleets. I am sure that if any three of the other
fleets had to decide on a common scoring platform for all, there would be
some debate. Maybe we are taking the wrong approach here. For all
practical purposes, we are three fleets; Spin A, Non-Spin C and Non-Spin
D. Sundays are important to some and not to others, some want to venture
out while others do not. Maybe each division should decide how their award
is calculated. Just a thought. On the other hand, if the rules were the
same across the board and not a single Spin A boat showed up on Sundays,
then Sunday's don't count for the Spin A division, but they still count for
the fleets where there is participation. And if a Non-Spin D boat can
receive an average score for a race that they missed because they raced in a
HRYRA event, but no Non-Spin D boats ever went to a HRYRA event, does it
really matter ???
From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Eric
Baumes
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:35 AM
To: Gary Tenenbaum
Cc: mlgraphics1@gmail.com; wednightracing; Cruising Fleet Racers
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hmmm... Sounds like an interesting approach. I think sailwave supports the
High Point system and you can score with alternative systems with little
hassle.
Re Jacks quote I believe it was something like $5K to with a $5 pickle dish.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Gary Tenenbaum gtenen@optonline.net
wrote:
I don't have a boat entered in the fleet racing so I don't have a stake in
the fleet's decision regarding scoring. I do, however (no surprise) have an
opinion.
If the main concern is to reward those who show up most often, then you
would probably want to go with the Low Point system. Those skippers who
cannot, or choose not to, show up for every race will have virtually no
chance to medal.
On the other hand, if you wish to foster participation, you would most
likely opt for one of the alternate scoring systems outlined at USSailing.
How you break down the season and series scoring will reflect your approach
to participation.
The Ensign Fleet has historically used 60% participation as a benchmark
although recently they have moved to 50% as their numbers who race have
dropped.
The Sonar Fleet, on the other hand, expects all boats to show up every week.
I can assure you that, while this encourages every skipper to be on the line
each week, it really results in active participation by about 60% of the
fleet. The others, who cannot race every week, never finish in the top
three even though some of them are the best racers in the fleet.
Personally, I would advocate using the Low Point system for each of the
three (or two for the cruisers) series, and the High Point for the season
awards. It may make scoring cumbersome but it seems to be the fairest way
to encourage participation while rewarding the best racers.
I like competing and winning as much as the next but I try to keep in mind
Jack's remarks - "I spend a lot of time and a lot of money to win a $5.00
PICKLE DISH". In the end, we're all trying our best, but excelling while
fostering good sportsmanship within our sailing community is far more
fulfilling than gaming the system to win.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Luce mailto:luce01@optonline.net
To: 'Osman Coskun Kurtulus' mailto:kurtulusoc@aol.com ;
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org ; wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Remind me again, what are we voting for?
Components of trophies? I think Yes. This trophy should be awarded by the
club and cover the entire season. Other awards up to the Fleet.
Scoring outlined? Vote No. Reason - little or no 'penalty' for not racing.
Whether you race or not won't make much of a difference. The scores will be
so close there will be many ties, depending on the length of the season.
Lee
From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of
Osman Coskun Kurtulus
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 3:14 PM
To: kurtulusoc@aol.com; wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org; mlgraphics1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hi Everyone,
Little progress report:
I have 14 votes so far.
For the ones who has not voted yet, I understand and appreciate this does
not matter to some of you either way. However it makes more inclusive if you
cast your vote. So please email me and say YES or NO to the proposal below.
In light of the several debates I wanted to give you some information below
to review.
NBC Wednesday/Sunday Sailing Instructions:
14 SCORING
Each fleet will determine the series scoring and penalty system.
US Sailing Racing Rules Apenndix 11 "Changes in 2013-2016 does not effect
the below"
US SAILING Note on Scoring a Long Series: The scoring systems in Appendix
A may be inappropriate for a long series, such as a club's season
championship held over several weeks or months, in which some boats do not
compete in all of the races and in which more boats compete in some races
than in others. See 'Scoring a Long Series' at
http://www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries
www.ussailing.org/rules/longseries for an explanation of the scoring
problems that occur in such series, alternative scoring systems, and
language for sailing instructions to implement them.
Best Osman
Osman Kurtulus
16 Sunset Park
Montclair,NJ 07043
(917)-774-7454 tel:%28917%29-774-7454
-----Original Message-----
From: Osman Coskun Kurtulus kurtulusoc@aol.com
To: wednightracing wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org;
wednightracing wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet
Hello Racers,
While we are getting excited about the coming up season, I wanted to get
your input on couple of notions that we have been contemplating.
I have discussed these with several frequent racers, a soft committee per
se; and the following changes which we propose to improve our scoring system
and awarding our trophies for 2013 racing season.
TROPHIES:
CLUB Trophy
This trophy is awarded to each fleet by the club and covers the entire
season. We will score this with the combination of the following
races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series
Sunday Series
Memorial Day Regatta
Guy Multon Regatta
Labor Day Regatta
NBC Last Chance Regatta
Hudson River Long Distance Race
CRUISING FLEET Sunday Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet's award and we will score this based on the
following races/regattas,
Sunday Series only
CRUISING FLEET Wednesday Night Series Trophy
This trophy is for our own fleet's award and we will score this based on the
following races/regattas,
Wednesday Night Series only
SCORING:
Eric Baumes will be the official Scorer for the Cruising Fleet. (I will be
his back up at his absence)
We will score the boats Did Not Start (DNS) number of starts + 1
We will score the boats Did Not Finish (DNF) last place (4 boats start in
any race and each DNF will be scored 4)
We will score the boats Disqualified (DSQ) number of starts + 1
So what say you?
Please say YES or NO by replying to this email to me, so that I can tally
the votes to move forward.
Best
Osman Kurtulus
Cruising Fleet Captain (Racing)
(917)-774-7454 tel:%28917%29-774-7454
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org
Wednightracing mailing list
Wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org
http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org