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PUP Man Overboard Recovery at Sea

S
scottebulger@comcast.net
Mon, Feb 26, 2007 7:28 PM

At the boat show I purchased two fully automatic mustang PFDs.  I paid a bit extra for the sailor version, that has a set of attachment rings that are advertised as being able to retrieve you into the boat if you fall overboard.

My question is this:  I'm going to travel with my mast in a position to hoist a body aboard from over the transom, through the door.  I'll have a wireless remote available to operate the hoist.  My wife will have to throw me a line or get it attached to the rings on my pfd.  Then I hope she can use the hoist to retrieve me.  Now I know there are a million issues here.  Being at the back of the boat, having the prop turning, how she will even get to me...  But the most important question I have at this moment is will the pfd simply pull off me since there is no retaining strap through the crotch.  If I'm either too cold to hold on, or knocked out I think this rig will slip right off me.  If this is the case a simple crotch strap may remedy this.

An alternative is a fabric hammock that I would swim into and it would roll me onto the swim step, I think I like this idea a lot more!!!!

Your thoughts?

Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA

At the boat show I purchased two fully automatic mustang PFDs. I paid a bit extra for the sailor version, that has a set of attachment rings that are advertised as being able to retrieve you into the boat if you fall overboard. My question is this: I'm going to travel with my mast in a position to hoist a body aboard from over the transom, through the door. I'll have a wireless remote available to operate the hoist. My wife will have to throw me a line or get it attached to the rings on my pfd. Then I hope she can use the hoist to retrieve me. Now I know there are a million issues here. Being at the back of the boat, having the prop turning, how she will even get to me... But the most important question I have at this moment is will the pfd simply pull off me since there is no retaining strap through the crotch. If I'm either too cold to hold on, or knocked out I think this rig will slip right off me. If this is the case a simple crotch strap may remedy this. An alternative is a fabric hammock that I would swim into and it would roll me onto the swim step, I think I like this idea a lot more!!!! Your thoughts? Scott Bulger, Alanui, N40II, Seattle WA
V
VANNHANDEL
Mon, Feb 26, 2007 9:01 PM

Scott,

Here are two safety products that might be of interest in this regard:

The SB Rescue Sling:
http://www.rescueandrecovery.co.uk/rescue-sling-lifesaving-equipment.html
Some more info at the manufacturer's site:
http://en.sula.as/default.asp?Folder=1295

And/or the Rescue Strop:

http://www.rescueandrecovery.co.uk/rescue-strop-lifesaving-equipment.html

Thorstein Midttun
"NORNA"

Scott, Here are two safety products that might be of interest in this regard: The SB Rescue Sling: http://www.rescueandrecovery.co.uk/rescue-sling-lifesaving-equipment.html Some more info at the manufacturer's site: http://en.sula.as/default.asp?Folder=1295 And/or the Rescue Strop: http://www.rescueandrecovery.co.uk/rescue-strop-lifesaving-equipment.html Thorstein Midttun "NORNA"
PP
Peter Pisciotta
Mon, Feb 26, 2007 9:40 PM

Scott -

The article cited below says almost all there is to
say on the subject. As to a crotch-strap, I did over a
dozen COB recovery demonstrations at various Trawler
Fests. I recall once where the 'victim,' (in a gumby
suit) put her arms up to grab onto the hoisting tether
and slipped right through the harness. We all had a
good laugh, but it did illustrate the point.

I once saw Ron Trossbach, an active member of the CCA
and the Bonnell Cove Foundation (one of the title
sponsors of the attached research) at a seminar on
this subject - he advocates a crotch strap for the
very reason you mention.

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/COB.pdf

BTW - Given the occasional comments about West Marine,
I think it important to point out their contributions
to our collective passion - they, along with others,
have been longtime supporters (both financially and
logistically) of research like this that benefits us
all. As I recall, they were an important catalyst in
developing elements of the Lifesling (there were
others too - but you get the idea).

Peter
www.SeaSkills.com

=======================
Peter Pisciotta
415-902-8439

Scott - The article cited below says almost all there is to say on the subject. As to a crotch-strap, I did over a dozen COB recovery demonstrations at various Trawler Fests. I recall once where the 'victim,' (in a gumby suit) put her arms up to grab onto the hoisting tether and slipped right through the harness. We all had a good laugh, but it did illustrate the point. I once saw Ron Trossbach, an active member of the CCA and the Bonnell Cove Foundation (one of the title sponsors of the attached research) at a seminar on this subject - he advocates a crotch strap for the very reason you mention. http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/COB.pdf BTW - Given the occasional comments about West Marine, I think it important to point out their contributions to our collective passion - they, along with others, have been longtime supporters (both financially and logistically) of research like this that benefits us all. As I recall, they were an important catalyst in developing elements of the Lifesling (there were others too - but you get the idea). Peter www.SeaSkills.com ======================= Peter Pisciotta 415-902-8439
JH
John Harris
Mon, Feb 26, 2007 9:57 PM

Scott.

We use three PFD's that I think are the same as you describe. From your note
I assume that your planned trip is with just 2 people on board. Several
suggestions:  The first level of defense is NEVER going overboard -
therefore -install "jack lines". You can custom cut lines for example on a
N-46 run one from the starboard door grab handle to the port side bow cleat
thru the chock hole, run one from the port side door grab handle to the
mast, run one from the mast to the starboard side boat deck rail, run one
under the ceiling of the aft cockpit attached to the base of the boat deck
hand rails. Make a set of 2', 4', 6' and 8' tether lines. Don't leave the
interior of the boat in rough weather or after dark without being clipped on
to a jack line.

Next - you life jacket waist strap sound to tight, and when the harness ring
is loaded it will get tighter. It will not slip over you shoulders if it is
properly tightened.  Practice with you wife on a retrieval it will be worth
while particularly if she learns from doing rather than reading or planning.

Be safe - John Harris - World Odd @ Sea - N 4657

Scott. We use three PFD's that I think are the same as you describe. From your note I assume that your planned trip is with just 2 people on board. Several suggestions: The first level of defense is NEVER going overboard - therefore -install "jack lines". You can custom cut lines for example on a N-46 run one from the starboard door grab handle to the port side bow cleat thru the chock hole, run one from the port side door grab handle to the mast, run one from the mast to the starboard side boat deck rail, run one under the ceiling of the aft cockpit attached to the base of the boat deck hand rails. Make a set of 2', 4', 6' and 8' tether lines. Don't leave the interior of the boat in rough weather or after dark without being clipped on to a jack line. Next - you life jacket waist strap sound to tight, and when the harness ring is loaded it will get tighter. It will not slip over you shoulders if it is properly tightened. Practice with you wife on a retrieval it will be worth while particularly if she learns from doing rather than reading or planning. Be safe - John Harris - World Odd @ Sea - N 4657
PP
Peter Pisciotta
Tue, Feb 27, 2007 2:34 PM

You can custom cut
lines for example ....Make a set
of 2', 4', 6' and 8' tether
lines.

A couple thoughts on making these items - retail
jacklines can easily run $200 each so its tempting to
do-it-yourself:

  1. Tethers. From memory, someone did a test of safety
    tether products several years ago (US Sailing
    Foundation?). Of the 15 or so tested, they found
    unacceptable performance or design characteristics in
    over half as I recall. Some deformed under use, others
    didn't have contrasting stitching that allows an
    instant visual check to see if the line has been
    overloaded. Still others did not have a snap shackle
    that could be released under tension. If the tether is
    too short, there's not enough work room. Too long and
    the possible fall is too far. 6-feet seems to be the
    generally recommended length, with elastic in the line
    to keep excess out of your way. At the time I did this
    research a couple years ago, all West Marine products
    tested fine - there were others, but I don't recall
    which ones.

  2. Jacklines. Should be run down the middle of the
    boat, or as far inboard as practicable to limit the
    possible fall distance. Seems the best material is
    tubular nylon with a tracer thread that breaks when
    over-stressed indicating possible failure. The
    trucking industry uses this material a fair amount.

Finally (and I again forget the exact statistics), a
victim being trailed at 6-knots runs the risk of
drowning in something like 2-minutes, which is why
there should be a quick-release snap shackle on the
tether (not a carabiner) and why the jackline should
be inboard as far as possible (and not run all the way
to the stern). Some people argue a knife would work
but I have a hard time imagining pulling out a knife,
unfolding the blade, and cutting the thether while a
fire hose blasts me in the face.

The good news? Falling off a trawler is EXTREMELY rare
compared to sailboats. There are few reasons to be on
deck in bad weather, there are fewer flying
obstructions to whack a person, and the protection is
generally better.

Yes, staying on the boat is the best COB strategy. I'd
add that the pivotal part of that strategy is to
assure there is no reason to be on deck when the
weather is bad. Everything on deck needs to be
extrememly secure - anchors and dinghies are
especially prone to lax attention (for example,
dinghies are routinely secured with straps over them -
better is wire rope and turnbuckles from padeyes
attached to the dinghy's hull to the deck).

Peter
www.SeaSkills.com

> You can custom cut > lines for example ....Make a set > of 2', 4', 6' and 8' tether > lines. A couple thoughts on making these items - retail jacklines can easily run $200 each so its tempting to do-it-yourself: 1. Tethers. From memory, someone did a test of safety tether products several years ago (US Sailing Foundation?). Of the 15 or so tested, they found unacceptable performance or design characteristics in over half as I recall. Some deformed under use, others didn't have contrasting stitching that allows an instant visual check to see if the line has been overloaded. Still others did not have a snap shackle that could be released under tension. If the tether is too short, there's not enough work room. Too long and the possible fall is too far. 6-feet seems to be the generally recommended length, with elastic in the line to keep excess out of your way. At the time I did this research a couple years ago, all West Marine products tested fine - there were others, but I don't recall which ones. 2. Jacklines. Should be run down the middle of the boat, or as far inboard as practicable to limit the possible fall distance. Seems the best material is tubular nylon with a tracer thread that breaks when over-stressed indicating possible failure. The trucking industry uses this material a fair amount. Finally (and I again forget the exact statistics), a victim being trailed at 6-knots runs the risk of drowning in something like 2-minutes, which is why there should be a quick-release snap shackle on the tether (not a carabiner) and why the jackline should be inboard as far as possible (and not run all the way to the stern). Some people argue a knife would work but I have a hard time imagining pulling out a knife, unfolding the blade, and cutting the thether while a fire hose blasts me in the face. The good news? Falling off a trawler is EXTREMELY rare compared to sailboats. There are few reasons to be on deck in bad weather, there are fewer flying obstructions to whack a person, and the protection is generally better. Yes, staying on the boat is the best COB strategy. I'd add that the pivotal part of that strategy is to assure there is no reason to be on deck when the weather is bad. Everything on deck needs to be extrememly secure - anchors and dinghies are especially prone to lax attention (for example, dinghies are routinely secured with straps over them - better is wire rope and turnbuckles from padeyes attached to the dinghy's hull to the deck). Peter www.SeaSkills.com