Last week a Freightliner Sportschassis salesman, Tim Cristman, contacted me
(the Admirable and I had stop in at a local dealership and I left my
business card). Tom knows trucks and boats, he has 20 years experience in
long haul trucking, including a little commercial boat hauling and a
personal interest in boats. He has been very helpful and when he didn't know
the answers to some of my questions he called the factory.

Tom doesn't share my preference for "tag along" trailers. He prefers the
"fifth wheel" or "gooseneck" types for better weight distribution, handling
and turning angle. I pointed out that I wanted to be able to connect the
trailer to the front for launching, wanted the shorter trailer length,
needed a tongue extension and wanted a box on the bed for cargo and/or dogs.
Tom contacted the Freightliner factory and the engineers there indicated
that with my tongue load, approaching 3,000 lbs., connected to the front of
the truck, I would have almost no weight on the rear tires. This could be a
problem since the truck will be rear wheel drive and only the rear wheels
are locked by the emergency brake. I would need to add 2,000 to 3,000 lbs.
of ballast to the rear (the FL-60 already has 1,000 lbs. of ballast). I have
therefore abandon the front hitch capability and I am now leaning towards
the "Gooseneck" trailer. Once again I have to admit that Michael Kasten was
right and I was wrong. I'll investigate having storage space on top of the
gooseneck area and using it as a wind-deflector for the boat.

The Admirable and I test drove a FL-60 Sportschassis Friday evening. Well,
that was the plan. I even had Tom bring the truck to our house so she would
be able to drive on local roads that she was familiar with. Unfortunately
once she saw and rode in it she declined to drive, something about, its
really big and LA rush hour traffic and wanting to start out in a deserted
parking lot, ... so I didn't push her. I was quite impressed with the truck.
It is big enough to intimidate even the largest SUV's on the road. The
Admirable thought I took too much advantage of that fact:-). The truck we
drove had a crew cab (seats 5 or 6 or sleeps two friendly adults). It was
equipped with the 300 HP, 860 ftlb torque Caterpillar engine and the 6 speed
Allison automatic transmission. It was quite easy to drive and it could
reach 65 mph by the end of an up hill on-ramp.

Tom indicated that Freightliner is in the process of redesigning the FL-xx
line and the new model will be out before I am ready to buy my truck. The
new model will have air bag suspension front and rear which will
significantly improve the ride and the ability to adjust to varying load
conditions.

Some people suggested that I use a travel lift or crane to launch and give
up on ramp launching such a large boat, so I did a engineering trade study.
I researched this at my closest marina (the one I would use the most). Their
travel lift fee for a 36' boat is $206 per launch/recovery. The boat ramp is
$7 per day for parking and the ramp use is included in parking. Although
$412 per trip wouldn't break the bank, if I used the boat once a month for
15 years (my objective usage) the difference in cost would be $70,000. Since
in reality, I'll probably only achieve half of this usage (if I don't
average 6 trips a year I better sell it) the cost would be closer to
$35,000. The cost of making the trailer launch ramp compatible (i.e. tongue
support wheel, dunk-able wheel bearings, submersible lights, flush kits on
the brakes, ...) is economically equivalent to prepaying the launch fees.
However, to make a direct comparison, I need to deduct the cost of money to
get equivalent dollars. Assuming 10% cost of money reduces the launch fees
to $16,676 in today's dollars. Since this is more that the total cost
estimate for the trailer it is impossible to save enough money on the
trailer cost to make travel lift or crane launch economically viable.
Therefore, my primary approach will be to ramp launch, however as a back-up
I'll make the trailer compatible with a lift or crane.

I have research boat ramps and determined the grade of the ramps vary
between 10% and 15%. I have also determined that there is a lack of
useful/valid data regarding boat launching ramps. The worst case  grade for
reaching the launch depth in the minimum grade or 10%. I estimate for a 10%
grade ramp, I'd need about a 36' tongue extension to float the boat on and
off without getting the truck tires into the water. Since a 36' tongue
extension could not support the tongue weight, I'll need a tongue support
wheel. An alternative to the tongue extension is to "rope" launch. The rope
launch also requires a tongue support wheel but it relies on gravity to
maintain tension in the rope. The main issue with rope launch is if there is
silt on the ramp, the trailer may not have enough weight to push far enough
through the muck to float the boat on/off. This is a bigger problem for
sailboats than for trawlers. I should be able to use the boats thrust to
help launch and attach the trailer winch cable to the boat to get the
trailer deep enough for recovery.

I found a elegant solution to the tongue support wheel problem. Doug
Sycamore, who launches a 25' Catalina Sailboat
http://www.best.com/~c25c250/restricted/fortu.html has a bracket for his
trailer which holds the spare tire on an axial. The wheel can be locked in
the up or down position. This provides a good tongue support that can roll
over anything the trailer can roll over. Doug Sycamore's tongue support
wheel is fixed (i.e. does not pivot) so he needs to aim the trailer before
lowering the support wheel, but he doesn't need to steer the trailer as you
would with a tongue extension.

All wheel drive: Some people suggested that I may need all wheel drive (AWD)
to reliably get the boat up the ramp. I think that rear wheel drive will be
adequate most of the time, but for 1% to 10% of the time, I may need more
traction. From a traction standpoint the worst case is the maximum ramp
gradient of 15%. The Gooseneck trailer helps with the traction problem since
the Gooseneck's recommended tongue weight is 25% of the trailer weight,
whereas the recommended "tag along trailer" tongue weight is 10% of the
trailer weight. In my case this is a difference of 3,300 lbs on the rear
axial of the truck. On the FL-60, AWD adds ~$35,000 to the price, increases
the height of the vehicle and makes the ride much worse. Therefore, I have
decided to provide a winch recovery capability. If I can't tow the boat up
the ramp directly, I'll park the truck part way (or all the way) up the ramp
and winch the boat up. I'll have enough traction for this since I'll have
all wheel brakes. The winch could take a considerable period of time
depending on the winch speed, but it will save considerable $$,$$$. I'll
look into getting a hydraulic pump on the PTO and a hydraulic winch to speed
it up.

I think I'll have the tongue support wheel(s) steer-able, but guided by the
launch/recovery cable. This way the trailer will always be steered directly
towards the winch, which will be inline with the Gooseneck hitch (if the
truck is straight). This should simplify connecting the trailer.

I was considering having the trailer wheels designed to lower for launch to
reduce the distance from the waterline to the ground, however on further
evaluation I realized that the boat sits at a 4 degree down angle on the
trailer, which equates to a 7% grade. Therefore for any grade greater than
7% the boat will contact the front of the trailer first so lowering the
wheels would be useless. What will help is having the ability to lower the
tongue or raise the tongue support wheels.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley
Trailerable Trawler dreamer

Mike, I've been following your trailerable trawler project for awhile.
Finally got to "jump in". In a former life I use to launch and recover lots
of boats from lots of ramps and also transport them.

Tim is right, the 5th wheel will make your life a lot more comfortable
especially on a long haul. The wind wander of a tongue trailer rig will
leave marks in your steering wheel and a stain on the seat.

We hauled from ramps that were steep with a nice sharp crown to those long
long ones that would never let you get the boat on/off. Also from
"unimproved ramps". This is a nice way of the state your launching in saying
it might be gravel or sand or mud. The biggest problem is always to make
sure the ramp continues beyond the deepest point you need the trailer. Most
ramps end abruptly with a sharp drop off. In addition many have a sizable
"hump" just beyond that where the prop wash has dredged the hole and made a
"pile". This can be tough on props/rudders

We had several tongue extensions to fit the situation. A set of dual
steerable wheels on the tongue will allow you to get the most out of the
unit. You cannot use a rope down system in most ramps as gravity will not
take an empty trailer thru the trash at the end of the ramp. You must "push
it" down to be able to reliably recover a deeper draft boat than the average
boat that uses that particular ramp. After many tries we ended up with a
three piece tongue extension. An accordion type, just slide the tubes out
and fastpin them at the required length. Easy to stow and deploy. Don't
forget to pin it! Don't ask........

Generally speaking when you show up at a ramp with something substantially
larger that the norm you draw a crowd. In fact you will be the high point of
most of the other boaters experience for the day..heck maybe the week if all
doesn't go well. The last thing you need is to get hung up or stuck. Most
ramp are busy places and the wait to get a sizable wrecker in to help out
causes the crowd to become both larger and somewhat less manageable. Don't
ask how I know this but ...........

A BIG electric winch is required on the trailer located at the height of
whatever you are attaching it to on the boat. I had an adjustable one for
varying style boats we used to pull. 4 8D batteries would just about get a
stubborn one up before the winch was slowing. Oh yeah they should be mounted
higher than the water level ;-) Don't ask again.....

The best trailer should have 3 axles for flotation in soft ramps but only
two on the road to reduce scuffing wear
The most important thing for the tires is large rolling diameter not fat
tires. A 32 to 36" 80 series tire will pull up easier than a 30" 60 series
tire. Think more of the angle of attack of the tire over the crud on the
ramp.

Another minor incontinence is the need to do all this on a high tide or
nearly so. Both launch and recovery 2, 6 10, 15 ft of tide exposes a lot of
slime :-(

Which brings us to the final item...the tow vehicle. Traction is the game
here, like in tank tread. Traction comes from the contact area of the tires
and the material it is in contact with more than the weight of the vehicle.
If the ramp is smooth, slick, slimy, wet, sandy and your tires are on it you
are in trouble. This is where the widest lowest profile tire that puts the
most rubber on the road is required. I have pulled 30,000 lbs up a soupy mud
ramp with dual 36' 50 series as long as the tires stay on the dry stuff. I
have also "gone over the edge" and be pulled down the ramp trying to launch.
This is where the crowd really starts to get up...all wheels locked and
you're sliding down. You want to get out and block the wheels but you lose
the front brakes if you do...will the boat start to float and lessen the
load or do we make the front page? Don't ask..... This is a good place for
Paul Browne to step in...his word pictures are great :-)

I guess I'd go for the AWD model or go back to the cost analysis on the
travel lift launch/recover vs. the ramp. I think the there are a couple of
more variables to toss in to that equation. Need to time the tide vs. call
the travel lift.

Mike, I think you have a great project here and hope it works out well. Heck
I've been drooling all over the pictures of those trucks. They've come a
long way :-)

Cheers
Dave
Swan Song
58 Roughwater
Tortola, BVI

Thanks for the post Dave. There is a lot of useful information here.

Dave wrote, "<snip> We had several tongue extensions to fit the situation. A
set of dual steerable wheels on the tongue will allow you to get the most
out of the unit. You cannot use a rope down system in most ramps as gravity
will not take an empty trailer thru the trash at the end of the ramp. You
must "push it" down to be able to reliably recover a deeper draft boat than
the average boat that uses that particular ramp. After many tries we ended
up with a three piece tongue extension. An accordion type, just slide the
tubes out and fastpin them at the required length. Easy to stow and deploy.
Don't
forget to pin it! Don't ask........"

Thanks for that info. I was worried about needing to push it. In addition to
the cable winch, I'll also have a multi-section tongue extension. Also I am
a firm believer in check lists. I'll put the Admirable in charge of checking
the things off. She won't let me forget anything!

"Generally speaking when you show up at a ramp with something substantially
larger that the norm you draw a crowd. In fact you will be the high point of
most of the other boaters experience for the day..heck maybe the week if all
doesn't go well. The last thing you need is to get hung up or stuck. Most
ramp are busy places and the wait to get a sizable wrecker in to help out
causes the crowd to become both larger and somewhat less manageable. Don't
ask how I know this but ..........."

I plan to plan my first trip to the ramp so the tide is high and the crowds
are small. I'll hire a professional to teach me to launch and recover the
boat. We'll try and see how many times we can do it before the tide goes
out. I might even call a wrecker just in case #%*% happens. I think a lot of
problems occur because you know people are watching and waiting and you
start to rush. It is best to learn in the middle of the week at a ramp with
a lot of lanes so you can take your time.

"A BIG electric winch is required on the trailer located at the height of
whatever you are attaching it to on the boat. I had an adjustable one for
varying style boats we used to pull. 4 8D batteries would just about get a
stubborn one up before the winch was slowing. Oh yeah they should be mounted
higher than the water level ;-) Don't ask again....."

I was thinking about a tall enough front post to keep the winch above water
and AGM batteries (duh) above that in a splash proof dog house. I was even
thinking about a wireless remote control. It could be a bit of a hike/swim
to the winch.

"The best trailer should have 3 axles for flotation in soft ramps but only
two on the road to reduce scuffing wear The most important thing for the
tires is large rolling diameter not fat tires. A 32 to 36" 80 series tire
will pull up easier than a 30" 60 series tire. Think more of the angle of
attack of the tire over the crud on the
ramp."

This is one area where trailer/boat manufacturers try and cut corners and do
a disservice to their customers. I'll see if I can get axils/wheels large
enough to get by with two plus a high rider, but I think that I might need
all three to carry the load. I'll ask the trailer builder what they can do
to pull one wheel up a little for maneuvering at the ramp.

"Another minor incontinence is the need to do all this on a high tide or
nearly so. Both launch and recovery 2, 6 10, 15 ft of tide exposes a lot of
slime :-("

Yah, my boat is going to have to be a high tide launcher. Add that to the
fact that some states don't allow wide loads on the road after dark and ramp
hours and it is going to be a logistical challenge. Sometimes it will be
easier to pay the $206 and use the hoist. I think the important thing is to
have both options. What if I want somewhere where there isn't a lift? Did
you ever tried using snow chains?

"Which brings us to the final item...the tow vehicle. Traction is the game
here, like in tank tread. Traction comes from the contact area of the tires
and the material it is in contact with more than the weight of the vehicle.
If the ramp is smooth, slick, slimy, wet, sandy and your tires are on it you
are in trouble. This is where the widest lowest profile tire that puts the
most rubber on the road is required. I have pulled 30,000 lbs up a soupy mud
ramp with dual 36' 50 series as long as the tires stay on the dry stuff. I
have also "gone over the edge" and be pulled down the ramp trying to launch.
<snip>"

If the ramp is long enough, couldn't I stop above the slime and use the
winch and/or tongue extension?

"I guess I'd go for the AWD model or go back to the cost analysis on the
travel lift launch/recover vs. the ramp. I think the there are a couple of
more variables to toss in to that equation. Need to time the tide vs. call
the travel lift."

I think the lift is a more economical alternative than the AWD. In addition,
I should only need to resort to using the lift a small percentage of the
time.

Thanks again Dave. You have provided some of the most useful information
yet. I really appreciate it.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley
Trailerable Trawler gonnabe

Mike wrote"
<I was thinking about a tall enough front post to keep the winch above water
and AGM batteries (duh) above that in a splash proof dog house. I was even
thinking about a wireless remote control. It could be a bit of a hike/swim
to the winch.>

Mike the winch post/stand also has to be the ladder to get on/off the boat.
I don't think wireless is secure enough. Wouldn't want to risk the kid with
the remote control on his dune buggy accidentally "controlling the winch"
:-( You might want a flip down ramp from the winch tower to extend over the
tongue. It might keep your "feet dry"

<What if I want somewhere where there isn't a lift? Did you ever tried using
snow chains?>

Last thing I remember about chains is that they don't work well on concrete
and tend to dig up hot asphalt. Besides if this big boat hasn't drawn a
crowd, watching some dude putting chains on his $75K rig on July 4th at the
boat ramp will :-)

<If the ramp is long enough, couldn't I stop above the slime and use the
winch and/or tongue extension?>

Generally yes but I found some ramps were that were built more like runways
:-( others that would make the Grand Canyon proud. You have the chance to
research what you need so this may not be an issue.

Keep working on it and you'll come out OK. If you can legally tow it on the
road then you'll be able to launch and recover it  without to much trouble
once you have a well thought out system.

Cheers
Dave
Swan Song
'58 Roughwater (too big to trailer ;-))
Tortola, BVI