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Re: [volt-nuts] 3458A SCAL

DM
Dick Moore
Mon, Jun 21, 2010 7:04 PM

Haven't tried this but I strongly recommend going 50 ohms all the way. Flatness will be better and as you note, the attenuation is easier and also flatter overall.

Best,
Dick Moore

On Jun 21, 2010, at 5:00 AM, volt-nuts-request@febo.com wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:18:08 +0000
From: Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk
Subject: [volt-nuts] HP3458A SCAL hardware
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Message-ID: 5484.1277072288@critter.freebsd.dk

I am looking at the HP3458A SCAL procedure and for which I am
somewhat short on the required hardware, and have been pondering a
simpler way to perform the SCAL, and would like to hear your comments.

The basic requirement is to supply three AC voltages at two
or three frequencies:

3-10Vrms    @ 100kHz, 2MHz & 8MHz
0.3-1Vrms   @ 100kHz       & 8MHz
30-100mVrms @ 100kHz       & 8MHz

Forget the frequency precision for a moment, that is trivial.

As long as the voltages are within 0.2% (0.017dB?) for the the
various frequencies, the absolute value of the voltage is not
important.

Very few, if any, tone generators can meet that flatness spec, which
is why the cal-procedure specifies use of three hard to get thermal
converters.

I came up with this circuit:

  -----------+-------+--- 330R ----+-----+-------
                 |       |             |     |

Generator        optional    |          130R  10R
(HP33120A) thermal    51R            |    |      HP3458A
converter  |            SW1  SW2
|      |            |    |
-----------+-------+-------------+-----+-------

SW1 and SW2 are either switches or, likely better: RF relays.

I built a birdnest version of this, using SMD resistors and
two standard relays from the junk-heap.

I tested it with my HP3577A, and the results are not discouraging:
The flatness from 100kHz to 2MHz is close to spec, but I loose
about 0.1dB from 2MHz to 8MHz.

The ideal mechanical construction would be a PCB with two 4mm
bananaplugs in one end, ready to plug into the HP3458A and a
BNC in the other end to connect the generator and a couple of
wires to drive the relays.

But I am far from sure I know how to design this PCB, nor
what kind of components are best (SMD/through-hole).

In fact, I am not even sure it is a good idea to have a ground
plane, since the right hand side has variable circuit impedance
depending on the switch positions.

The alternative is to change the circuit to have 50Z all the way
through, and a 50 Ohm terminator on the meter side.

In that case the voltage selection could be done by switching in a
10 and a 20dB attenuator.

Has anybody tried this ?

Any other ideas ?

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Haven't tried this but I strongly recommend going 50 ohms all the way. Flatness will be better and as you note, the attenuation is easier and also flatter overall. Best, Dick Moore On Jun 21, 2010, at 5:00 AM, volt-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:18:08 +0000 > From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> > Subject: [volt-nuts] HP3458A SCAL hardware > To: volt-nuts@febo.com > Message-ID: <5484.1277072288@critter.freebsd.dk> > > > I am looking at the HP3458A SCAL procedure and for which I am > somewhat short on the required hardware, and have been pondering a > simpler way to perform the SCAL, and would like to hear your comments. > > The basic requirement is to supply three AC voltages at two > or three frequencies: > > 3-10Vrms @ 100kHz, 2MHz & 8MHz > 0.3-1Vrms @ 100kHz & 8MHz > 30-100mVrms @ 100kHz & 8MHz > > Forget the frequency precision for a moment, that is trivial. > > As long as the voltages are within 0.2% (0.017dB?) for the the > various frequencies, the absolute value of the voltage is not > important. > > Very few, if any, tone generators can meet that flatness spec, which > is why the cal-procedure specifies use of three hard to get thermal > converters. > > I came up with this circuit: > > > -----------+-------+--- 330R ----+-----+------- > | | | | > Generator optional | 130R 10R > (HP33120A) thermal 51R | | HP3458A > converter | SW1 SW2 > | | | | > -----------+-------+-------------+-----+------- > > SW1 and SW2 are either switches or, likely better: RF relays. > > I built a birdnest version of this, using SMD resistors and > two standard relays from the junk-heap. > > I tested it with my HP3577A, and the results are not discouraging: > The flatness from 100kHz to 2MHz is close to spec, but I loose > about 0.1dB from 2MHz to 8MHz. > > The ideal mechanical construction would be a PCB with two 4mm > bananaplugs in one end, ready to plug into the HP3458A and a > BNC in the other end to connect the generator and a couple of > wires to drive the relays. > > But I am far from sure I know how to design this PCB, nor > what kind of components are best (SMD/through-hole). > > In fact, I am not even sure it is a good idea to have a ground > plane, since the right hand side has variable circuit impedance > depending on the switch positions. > > The alternative is to change the circuit to have 50Z all the way > through, and a 50 Ohm terminator on the meter side. > > In that case the voltage selection could be done by switching in a > 10 and a 20dB attenuator. > > Has anybody tried this ? > > Any other ideas ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >