Nobeltec and other choices
Hi John,
Thanks, found the tool, I will have to spend more time reviewing the options
in the manual!
I will see how the T&C works this morning, its only 20 miles but springs
make a difference of about 17 mins at 9 kts to me, a short test I know but
will give me an indication. I will report back. I in fact delayed the
purchase of Admiral because they had a problem with European tides, which is
now resolved, unfortunately the season is now ending so it's difficult to
give a good test, so may hold off making decisions until this time next
year.
I have been very pro C-Map having had them for nearly 20 years, but they
lost their way in partners under Jepperson but that may now be changing with
the new Raymarine tie up, if they survive! So I am at the moment quite
comfortable with testing this solution as I can implement a sophisticated PC
based system with huge built in redundancy and flexibility both today and in
the future, compared to proprietary kit.
I think it would be a useful feature to be able to identify arrival at a
particular waypoint, set at a bad tidal gate, the Raz d'Sein in Biscay for
example, at say slack water which resolve some of my trips; also
incorporating GRIB's and asking for a wind with tide/current solution.
Thanks for your feedback it's been really useful.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: John Marshall [mailto:johnamar@mac.com]
Sent: 20 September 2009 09:20
To: Michael Slater
Cc: bob@peterson.org; 'Trawlers and Trawlering List'; 'Milt Baker'
Subject: Re: T&T: Nobeltec and other choices
Michael,
With Nobeltec, as with CE, once you dodge something, its easiest
just
to hit the Reset Crosstrack Error button and resume NAV mode directly
toward the next waypoint, presuming that path is clear of obstacles.
Otherwise, as you note, both programs interface with the AP to make
big turns to reacquire the old track.
It's more an autopilot issue than a Nav program issue, given in NAV
mode, the AP's goal is to minimize XTE, and the quickest way for it to
reduce XTE is to approach the old track at a sharp angle. I have had
some success in adjust the Nav Gain parameter on my autopilot to SOFT
to reduce this action, but Reset XTE (or might be called Cancel XTE)
in Nobeltec/CE is the simplest way. You will have to add that button
to one of your toolbars.
I've never found the tides and currents connection to the Nobeltec
planbook to be useful, and the ETA planner always tries to take me
through salt water rapids at peak current to minimize travel time,
which is worse than useless and dangerous. And no, the ETA projection
(on the NavBar) while underway does not take into account currents,
and only uses your current SOG and distance to go. In theory, the
planbook view of your route will take that into account when underway,
using current SOG only for the current leg and projected data with
currents for the upcoming legs, but it generally gives me wacky answers.
Never used Auto Route tool, so can't comment on it. I use the
standard route tool to manually plan routes.
Other bugs I know of are related to planbook not updating its leg
ETA's reliably when adjusting departure times or speeds when doing
planning.
Also if you attempt to cancel or select Next Waypoint when the
system
is preparing to show an arrival at the current waypoint, you will hang
the system and have to shut down the program and restart it.
I've also had it crash and exit a few times when underway for no
apparent reason.
I've had it forget AIS targets and/or show ones in locations that
the
ships have long vacated. Sometimes it refuses to show any AIS targets.
Solution is to shut down the program and restart.
In fact, whenever it seems to be getting weird, I shut it down and
restart it.
That said, I've learned to adjust to the bugs and not utilize buggy
features, no none of this bothers me too much now as I kind of expect
it and can deal with it. Frequency of having these issues, other than
the always present planbook weirdness, is about once a week when I'm
underway each day.
John
On Sep 20, 2009, at 12:28 AM, Michael Slater wrote:
All,
As the guy who started this thread I have been engrossed by the
response,
and thank all who have dived in, even got some feedback on charts
which
failed to gain serious input in my last enquiry. I would like to
hear of
some of the major bugs which are being referred to, as I have come
across
what appear to be some but as I am just getting to know the software
it is
difficult to always decide if it's my set up or menu interpretation,
or the
software?
On an interesting note I purchased the tides and currents upgrade
which
gives a host of calculations, I tested one short passage yesterday,
however
as I was getting used to the autopilot control it was not
conclusive. Today
we return with spring tides and no real wind to interfere with the
prediction and it will be very interesting. I cannot see if the ETA
prediction during passage includes foul or otherwise currents or
just works
on the SOG. I will try to compare today with my Raymarine ETA
prediction.
I also find the auto route tool useful, providing you have already
got legs
in various other routes which it picks up on, especially closer in. Of
course you have to go through the solution to check, and indeed on
one it
did take me through a headland, but in principle it gets the donkey
work
done leaving me to tweak.
Having had 9 years on my Raymarine 631 driving my AP20 I miss some
features.
If I dodge a significant other and end up a reasonable amount off
track, on
Raymarine I can just reset xtrack error and it adjusts the route,
however
Admiral does not have that and wants to take large turns to get back
onto
the route. I can see the logic close in but on a 100 mile leg it's
no big
deal to swing onto a new track. However as I say I am still playing
so maybe
there is a solution?
Look forward to the buggy answers.
Michael Slater
Falmouth UK
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.106/2381 - Release Date: 09/19/09
17:50:00
Michael,
I generally just lock the NAVBAR waypoint predictor on the way point
at the tidal gate, and then manage my ETA to the slack time (which I
decide on by studying both Nobeltec data and printed tables). I always
wind up close enough to slack to deal with it safely. I do my initial
route planning and departure times assuming at least a half knot less
speed than I think I can manage, and plan arrivals 15 minutes early,
just to buy some margin at the tidal gates. Early arrival is OK, you
can just hang out for a bit, but late isn't fixable.
Nothing fancy but it works.
John
On Sep 20, 2009, at 2:10 AM, Michael Slater wrote:
Hi John,
Thanks, found the tool, I will have to spend more time reviewing the
options
in the manual!
I will see how the T&C works this morning, its only 20 miles but
springs
make a difference of about 17 mins at 9 kts to me, a short test I
know but
will give me an indication. I will report back. I in fact delayed the
purchase of Admiral because they had a problem with European tides,
which is
now resolved, unfortunately the season is now ending so it's
difficult to
give a good test, so may hold off making decisions until this time
next
year.
I have been very pro C-Map having had them for nearly 20 years, but
they
lost their way in partners under Jepperson but that may now be
changing with
the new Raymarine tie up, if they survive! So I am at the moment quite
comfortable with testing this solution as I can implement a
sophisticated PC
based system with huge built in redundancy and flexibility both
today and in
the future, compared to proprietary kit.
I think it would be a useful feature to be able to identify arrival
at a
particular waypoint, set at a bad tidal gate, the Raz d'Sein in
Biscay for
example, at say slack water which resolve some of my trips; also
incorporating GRIB's and asking for a wind with tide/current solution.
Thanks for your feedback it's been really useful.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: John Marshall [mailto:johnamar@mac.com]
Sent: 20 September 2009 09:20
To: Michael Slater
Cc: bob@peterson.org; 'Trawlers and Trawlering List'; 'Milt Baker'
Subject: Re: T&T: Nobeltec and other choices
Michael,
With Nobeltec, as with CE, once you dodge something, its easiest
just
to hit the Reset Crosstrack Error button and resume NAV mode directly
toward the next waypoint, presuming that path is clear of obstacles.
Otherwise, as you note, both programs interface with the AP to make
big turns to reacquire the old track.
It's more an autopilot issue than a Nav program issue, given in NAV
mode, the AP's goal is to minimize XTE, and the quickest way for it to
reduce XTE is to approach the old track at a sharp angle. I have had
some success in adjust the Nav Gain parameter on my autopilot to SOFT
to reduce this action, but Reset XTE (or might be called Cancel XTE)
in Nobeltec/CE is the simplest way. You will have to add that button
to one of your toolbars.
I've never found the tides and currents connection to the Nobeltec
planbook to be useful, and the ETA planner always tries to take me
through salt water rapids at peak current to minimize travel time,
which is worse than useless and dangerous. And no, the ETA projection
(on the NavBar) while underway does not take into account currents,
and only uses your current SOG and distance to go. In theory, the
planbook view of your route will take that into account when underway,
using current SOG only for the current leg and projected data with
currents for the upcoming legs, but it generally gives me wacky
answers.
Never used Auto Route tool, so can't comment on it. I use the
standard route tool to manually plan routes.
Other bugs I know of are related to planbook not updating its leg
ETA's reliably when adjusting departure times or speeds when doing
planning.
Also if you attempt to cancel or select Next Waypoint when the
system
is preparing to show an arrival at the current waypoint, you will hang
the system and have to shut down the program and restart it.
I've also had it crash and exit a few times when underway for no
apparent reason.
I've had it forget AIS targets and/or show ones in locations that
the
ships have long vacated. Sometimes it refuses to show any AIS targets.
Solution is to shut down the program and restart.
In fact, whenever it seems to be getting weird, I shut it down and
restart it.
That said, I've learned to adjust to the bugs and not utilize buggy
features, no none of this bothers me too much now as I kind of expect
it and can deal with it. Frequency of having these issues, other than
the always present planbook weirdness, is about once a week when I'm
underway each day.
John
On Sep 20, 2009, at 12:28 AM, Michael Slater wrote:
All,
As the guy who started this thread I have been engrossed by the
response,
and thank all who have dived in, even got some feedback on charts
which
failed to gain serious input in my last enquiry. I would like to
hear of
some of the major bugs which are being referred to, as I have come
across
what appear to be some but as I am just getting to know the software
it is
difficult to always decide if it's my set up or menu interpretation,
or the
software?
On an interesting note I purchased the tides and currents upgrade
which
gives a host of calculations, I tested one short passage yesterday,
however
as I was getting used to the autopilot control it was not
conclusive. Today
we return with spring tides and no real wind to interfere with the
prediction and it will be very interesting. I cannot see if the ETA
prediction during passage includes foul or otherwise currents or
just works
on the SOG. I will try to compare today with my Raymarine ETA
prediction.
I also find the auto route tool useful, providing you have already
got legs
in various other routes which it picks up on, especially closer in.
Of
course you have to go through the solution to check, and indeed on
one it
did take me through a headland, but in principle it gets the donkey
work
done leaving me to tweak.
Having had 9 years on my Raymarine 631 driving my AP20 I miss some
features.
If I dodge a significant other and end up a reasonable amount off
track, on
Raymarine I can just reset xtrack error and it adjusts the route,
however
Admiral does not have that and wants to take large turns to get back
onto
the route. I can see the logic close in but on a 100 mile leg it's
no big
deal to swing onto a new track. However as I say I am still playing
so maybe
there is a solution?
Look forward to the buggy answers.
Michael Slater
Falmouth UK
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.106/2381 - Release Date:
09/19/09
17:50:00