Well I sent this yesterday but it didn't show up this morning so I hope I don't dbbl post. >From: "Jon Boy aka:TrawlerGuy" <jsclipper@earthlink.net> >Sent: May 5, 2007 3:30 PM >Subject: MOB Plan > >What I'm hoping is that others here with actual experience/knowledge/wisdom will pick this up. >(Hint Hint Hint to those of you that "have lived to tell about it") > >Well I don't jump in the fray much, unless I believe I can actually bring KNOWLEDGE or WISDOM to the discussion; or, sometimes MY OPINIONS/IDEAS if I really feel strongly enough about it. >(Not that a plethora of comments and ideas aren't great at flushing out the FACTS, that's how this should work right?) But I hope we all remember to disseminate the difference. I like to believe that I'm knowledgeable about a few things. Some, diesel engines for instance, very knowledgeable in since its been my life's work. But topics about that are often just "well I heard" bantering and life has taught me to keep my mouth shut in general. Less wounds you see. However, in matters such as this, were the difference may well be if you come home to tell the tale or NOT, I feel that I/we should all be willing to find the FACTS, and the KNOWLEDGE to use them to make it to that rocking chair where we can tell the tale, not be a statistic and a fond memory to the family. > >I have had experience with this 2 times and both have totally changed my "ideas" of what it's "really" like and how every "idea" I had was pretty much lunacy. >(don't even ask how I come to be in the water looking up at 70tons of boat wanting to kill me unless you're buying me my 3rd beer at the time, OK) So I'm not trying to address someone who's motoring along in the ICW, or in very light seas on a nice day and "Billy Bob" (or whoever) falls overboard while taking a wiz off the swim deck you can futz around watching him trash the water while you put your MOB in action. I believe we should think about how we would handle the MOB situation in the most unfortunate situation since experience, and Murphy, indicate that's when it will happen. > >BTW: I'm not saying I have the answers here... I don't. I still don't believe we have the equipment/plan that, IMHO, would give us even "good odds" of a successful recovery under "worst case scenario, or "very good odds" in a "bad case" scenario and part of why I'm writing this is a belief that if ever any of us have to deal with being "in the sea looking back at the boat" (assuming that we're lucky enough to still be conscience) it's likely to be under nasty to damn nasty conditions. If I were to consider a MOB situation in "the worst weather we've ever been in personally", just the idea of making the course corrections necessary to go back "looking" for a MOB is a major consideration that must be manner that avoids putting the vessel in peril. Then the idea of finding the MOB and making whatever maneuvers necessary to approach them, within the parameters of what the sea allows the vessel and without hitting them outright, is a major challenge let alone then putting any MOB plan into action. (OK--let's say it's the most qualified pilot of the boat that's in the water, so maybe it's your spouse/whoever at the helm... It don't matter what you know, or can do, now... so how's it going to play out?) > >What I am saying is that when I try to apply my very limited, but real life, experience to what I've read members saying "their MOB plan" is over the last 2-3 yrs, both here and on several other forums, including the PUP, GL I see that most of what I hear is not even close to valid, would not work well at best, would likely fail and might well end in disaster, that is from what "I've experienced". This includes a few sailboat forums I participate in since that platform is where most of the real life knowledge about boating for the last few hundred years resides. However sailboats are such a different platform that most of their knowledge base is not valid for our vessels, especially the very tall ones, such as ours. > >I agree with Marin from the T&T post: >SNIP>Marin, How do you do a Man-Overboard recovery with the dink on the swim platform? >The short answer is, WE DON'T.<SNIP > >Our 62', 140,000lb vessel is a much more stable platform that many boats, and we've traveled with others so I know this is true, and even in moderate seas, I've been in the water in 7-8ft seas, the swim platform is not an option... You only have to get close to it to know that it would be a really fast way to die. >As far as ladders go, it's not like a dive boat that's low to water headed into the seas with a monster boarding ladder off the stern. I've been on dives, that probably should have been aborted, and boarded via extremely good, wide ladders with rails where the weight of you tank damn near collapses you legs on the up-side, and that's not nearly as bad as looking at your swim deck ladder, and we have a nice 5 step one, as it screams out of the water and then the entire deck smashes down again against the sea... a timing issue??? NOT! It "could" be done but would be foolish to try as there'd be very high risk of mistake and there would be no second try. Of course this isn't even considering an unconscious or injured MOB. > >That took "me" to the reality that it will have to be a recovery from the side. >Now this, of course, well be much different for each boat application but most of us here have a lot of free board. Our gunwale is apx 7ft above the waterline, more than most but still.. >I don't recommend that you jump in the ocean in 7-8' seas and see what it's like, but I can tell you that it looks a hell of a lot different than it does from the deck looking down thinking... "that don't look to bad". Very scary difference. If you put the bow into the sea you'll have those 7-8 footers running down the sides exacerbated by the vessel parting them. That's more than the 7-8' difference in your bobbing MOB in reference to the vessel. Not good. If you "shade" the boarding side by quartering slightly you break a lot of the wave but then get roll to deal with. If your MOB is in good condition and you have some sort of net/ladder to deploy, it could work but the movement can be intense and you MOB can be bashing against the side. > >At one time I thought that the best system would be a davit retrieval but now am not sure that would really work at all. First, your MOB would need to have on a proper harness capable of lifting safely. That brings up the subject of making sure that anyone that might become a MOB has this on... Of course if you could really assure this then you can just assure they don't end up overboard to start with right. Getting a harness to someone once in the water and getting it on them is an entire problem of it's own... not going there, just a ?. >However, let's assume everyone has a PFD harness on capable of lifting, that we can deploy the davit line and maneuver the boat to where it can be picked up and that the MOB is in condition to retrieve it and connect to it... you notice we're already out past the acceptable level of assumptions in my opinion. Oh yea, and don't forget that most of our davits have wire line on them. It sinks you know. If I put on a nice piece of floating poly long enough to deploy to the MOB, how do I winch them up since the davit will come to the end of it's travel and I'll just be dragging my MOB. nice >But, just for fun I'll go on. > >Now, our gunwale is apx 7ft above the waterline, the upper deck is maybe 13' and the davits are over 20'. No matter what your orientation, seas of any size, (let's say 8-10s but just think about 12-20s) that davit line is going to be like a bull whip. It would have to be run over the side of the boat tight against the upper deck and even then the boat's action will produce extreme motion in it. You know that you can't be right on top of your victim and in heavy seas you also can't afford to stop propulsion which would be a loss of control. So let's not drag our victims down the side to the props, right? > >All this is making another assumption. That multiple people are on-board that are able to maneuver the boat, deploy the, (previously rigged) davit and operate it while, keeping the vessel in a safe orientation that allows these maneuvers. I see no sense in planning on calm conditions since that is not when you're likely to have challenging problems. > >I know this topic has been hashed before, and I should have taken the time to address my concerns then, but just getting to it. >OK, leterrip > > >John & Susan >MV "MARIAH" >living aboard (Simpson Bay Lagoon, SXM) >Gwynn's Island Trawler,62 >http://makeashorterlink.com/?A26A5224C