There are certainly a number of well known boat designers that call themselves Naval Architects that have not completed a degree program in Naval Architecture. Most of the well known passagemaker designers are Westlawn graduates that went to apprentice somewhere and then opened their own design offices. Many graduates of formal Naval Architecture programs wind up with a degree in Marine Engineering as well and become PEs. Formal Naval Architecture programs like those found at Webb and the University of Michigan are very strongly oriented to large ship design and have only passing relevance to small craft design which is quite specialized. The Southhampton program is an exception. I believe strongly that if you want to design small vessels, getting a degree from Webb or U of M is inappropriate. Passagemaker designers that do not have university degrees in the subject include: Charles Neville Pat Bray Jay Benford George Buehler Bruce Roberts Michael Kasten Steve Seaton Dave Gerr Gary Grant Tom Fexas Jeff Leishman I submit that any of the above are more qualified to design small craft than virtually any formally trained Naval Architect that has not specialized in small boat design. Bruce -- ======================================================================= L. Bruce Jones U.S. SUBMARINES, INC. President POSEIDON UNDERSEA RESORTS LLC Tel: 208/687-9057 Fax: 208/441-7478 E-mail: bruce@ussubmarines.com http://ussubs.com http://poseidonresorts.com "Design, engineering and construction of submarines and submersibles" "Submarine related consulting, sales and operations." =======================================================================

At 03:50 PM 1/14/05 -0800, you wrote: >I submit that any of the above are more qualified to design small craft >than virtually any formally trained Naval Architect that has not >specialized in small boat design. > >Bruce Atta Boy! Bruce. Capt. Mike Maurice Tualatin(Portland), Oregon

That is an amazing list which embraces several of the designers of my fantasy boats. Ron Rogers I did win $5 in the Virgina lottery yesterday - I'm on a roll.