Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards
Ok, i did not know. I used brand new references. Do not cook them, they do not taste well ;-)
I mean more the shocks from transport, the mechanical stress. Or pack the TS in a soft foam box in that case the shocks will be absorbt.
Nice build in that tube by the way.
Fred PA4TIM
Op 6 sep. 2011 om 20:59 heeft Bob Smither smither@c-c-i.com het volgende geschreven:
Fred Schneider wrote:
Bob, Is it not better to let it age a bit befor it starts its journey
? I have build several standards a few months ago. I have not used
them since but then I meaured them during two weeks or so and
yesterday I put them on again. They still are not perfect stable. The
short time drift took a day or two to get smaller but the long time
drift still is not perfect. ( i am talking about 40-60 uV for a 1V
and a 2.5 V standard.)
Also test it mechanical. See if it reacts on shocks, temp differences
ect.
Thanks Fred. Both references (the LM119AH and the MAX6350) have several hundred hours on them. I have left them on for all the time since I put together the first bread board. When I was not working on them, they have been powered. They will accumulate an additional hundred hours or so before I actually ship them.
I will do some mechanical tests as well. The last thing I want to do is "cook" the TS for a day or so at perhaps 100C and then see what has changed.
Thanks for the suggestions.
--
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
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Fred Schneider wrote:
Ok, i did not know. I used brand new references. Do not cook them,
they do not taste well ;-)
Is that from experience ? :-).
I mean more the shocks from transport, the
mechanical stress. Or pack the TS in a soft foam box in that case the
shocks will be absorbt. Nice build in that tube by the way.
Fred PA4TIM
I was thinking the same thing - did not express myself well. I'm still
considering putting some sort of shock absorber to hold the circuit
board in the tube. Maybe bubble wrap, not sure.
Thanks for the ideas!
---=====
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
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Hi Bob,
I am wondering if the shape of the tube might be a problem if the item gets
Xrayed ? What with the modern thinking within the government they could
overreact and blow it up. Just saying ..........
Bill....WB6BNQ
Bob Smither wrote:
I finally found time to post some pictures of the TS:
http://c-c-i.com/image/tid/2
--
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in
rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
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WB6BNQ wrote:
Hi Bob,
I am wondering if the shape of the tube might be a problem if the
item gets Xrayed ? What with the modern thinking within the
government they could overreact and blow it up. Just saying
..........
Bill....WB6BNQ
:-). You know, I have had the same thought! I guess we won't know
until we try it.
Earlier I did take a previous prototype (somewhat larger, but still a
PVC tube) to the USPS to see about shipping costs. The clerk was very
helpful and did not seem concerned at all - not that that experience
really means much.
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed;
if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.
--Mark Twain
---=====
Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office)
I guess it makes sense to define the set of measurements to be made on a
Traveling Standard and how those measurements are to be made. I have
put a draft protocol for making TS measurements here:
This is all pretty new to me, so I would appreciate any feedback from
the list members, especially those that have agreed to make measurements.
Thanks!
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin: November 11, 1755
---=====
Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office)
Let's see. 2.5 inch diameter, about 10 inches long plastic cylinder with
wires sticking out of it. Yep, I can see how that might be considered a
threat.
Is there a mechanism to take it (or anything for that matter) to a shipping
agency that can attest it has been inspected and found not to contain
explosives before it is boxed and shipped? In other words, certification of
'non hazardous material'? Or is it all just what the sender reports?
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of WB6BNQ
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 4:53 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards - pictures
Hi Bob,
I am wondering if the shape of the tube might be a problem if the item gets
Xrayed ? What with the modern thinking within the government they could
overreact and blow it up. Just saying ..........
Bill....WB6BNQ
Bob Smither wrote:
I finally found time to post some pictures of the TS:
http://c-c-i.com/image/tid/2
--
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in
rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
--Douglas Casey (1992)
---=====
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It will be the ultimate shock test ;-)
Wow, are they so paranoia, do you live in Rusia or so ?
Fred PA4TIM
Op 6 sep. 2011 om 23:52 heeft WB6BNQ wb6bnq@cox.net het volgende geschreven:
Hi Bob,
I am wondering if the shape of the tube might be a problem if the item gets
Xrayed ? What with the modern thinking within the government they could
overreact and blow it up. Just saying ..........
Bill....WB6BNQ
Bob Smither wrote:
I finally found time to post some pictures of the TS:
--
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in
rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
--Douglas Casey (1992)
---=====
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Well Bob,
I do not think protocol is the correct term. As taken from Oxford, a formal
record of scientific experimental observation such as a procedure for carrying
out a scientific experiment or a course of medical treatment.
Well, we have not damaged the patient, yet, so a medical response is not
necessary. Classing it as a scientific observation is a bit of a stretch.
However, it is an experiment from which a hypothesis could be drawn.
Here, how each observer derives the data, procedurally, is totally immaterial;
the only requirement is they report three datums: 1) LM-35 value, 2) LM199 value
and 3) MAX6350 value. In the end, you will be the only one expected to follow
any protocol. Which, besides providing the raw data, would be to report a
statistical analysis and your summation of the experiment.
Bill....WB6BNQ
Bob Smither wrote:
I guess it makes sense to define the set of measurements to be made on a
Traveling Standard and how those measurements are to be made. I have
put a draft protocol for making TS measurements here:
http://c-c-i.com/tsp
This is all pretty new to me, so I would appreciate any feedback from
the list members, especially those that have agreed to make measurements.
Thanks!
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin: November 11, 1755
---=====
Smither@C-C-I.Com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office)
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Hello Bob,
one thougth of me just seeing the pictures.
how is the "top" and "bottom" of LM399 stabilized with your tube package.
Even when top and bottom is defined. The tube can be tilted by around 45 to
90 degrees.
Did you check if that has an influence on the output voltage?
Is the PCB fixed within the tube?
Thanks Fred. Both references (the LM119AH and the MAX6350) have several
hundred hours on them. I have left them on for all the time since I put
together the first bread board. When I was not working on them, they have
been powered. They will accumulate an additional hundred hours or so
before I actually ship them.
At least the plastic case of the MAX6350 will have suffered from soldering.
(dryed out).
So it will take at least a week or two until the unit has again stabilized.
With best regards
Andreas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Smither" smither@c-c-i.com
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Traveling Standards - pictures
I finally found time to post some pictures of the TS:
--
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc.
---=====
Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in
rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
--Douglas Casey (1992)
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Thanks for the feedback!
Andreas Jahn wrote:
Hello Bob,
one thougth of me just seeing the pictures.
how is the "top" and "bottom" of LM399 stabilized with your tube package.
I had not marked it at the time I took the pictures. It may be moot
anyway - after all the discussion of freaking out our government
overlords by mailing something that looks like a pipe, I have decided to
repackage it in a more conventional rectangular metal box. The box has
feet, so 'up' is pretty obvious!
Even when top and bottom is defined. The tube can be tilted by around 45
to 90 degrees.
Agreed, but new package will define 'up'.
Did you check if that has an influence on the output voltage?
Is the PCB fixed within the tube?
I can't see any in my testing, but remember I only have a 6.5 digit
voltmeter. I will look for it when I set up a difference arrangement as
has been suggested here.
Thanks Fred. Both references (the LM119AH and the MAX6350) have
several hundred hours on them. I have left them on for all the time
since I put together the first bread board. When I was not working on
them, they have been powered. They will accumulate an additional
hundred hours or so before I actually ship them.
At least the plastic case of the MAX6350 will have suffered from
soldering. (dryed out).
So it will take at least a week or two until the unit has again stabilized.
They are both on all the time now, and with the further testing I will
be doing they will have some time to settle in again. I did notice a 16
ppm shift in the MAX6350 a few hours after building the prototype (first
time the unit had been soldered) but I am using an old Fluke 883AB to
monitor the MAX6350 so am not sure how much stock to put in that
reading. I will post those measurements when I get some time.
Best regards,
Bob Smither